To think my husband is taking the piss?!?

[Summer1980US]

I’m interested to hear how other mums and partners manage childcare. Currently I do the bulk of childcare while my DH is off playing golf most weekends.

We both work full time. My husband has a busy job and leaves the house at 530am and is back about 630pm. This leaves me to get the DDs(1 and 3) ready for crèche and do drop off and collection every day. DDs go to bed at 7/730 so DH has limited interaction with kids during the week.

At the weekend he leaves for golf on Saturday at 7am and comes back at 2pm. After this he usually requires a nap. He spends some time with DDs between 4-7.

Sundays are usually better and he is only away for a couple of hours in the morning. He does spent a couple of hours quality time with the kids on a Sunday.

I’m so exhausted and overwhelmed from being the main caregiver. I know men are generally less involved with DD, but at this stage I feel like he is really taking the piss!!

I would be livid.

He needs to reduce the golf and start pulling his weight with his DC.

Get the babysitter whilst he's out at golf.

Even every Saturday playing golf is a bloody joke.

Tell him if you split he'd be having them every other weekend.

How are you feeling @Summer1980US

It's pretty much unanimous - your 'D' H us definitely taking the piss

@KettrickenSmiled I didn’t ask you.

OP, this is your life. You deserve to be happy, not exhausted, and feel fulfilled. I assume because you started this thread that you are looking for help that isn’t divorce, otherwise a married, stable woman with money would just get divorced. Why not get divorced? Be like millions of other people with their kids dragged here there and everywhere week after week......

Of course your husband should be helping more/be home more. You’ve spoken to him, asked him to? So unless you want to get divorced, it’s time to look at taking some time back for you. I assume these long days he works comes with a big pay cheque. He’s selfish - you be selfish too.

How is my most more unhelpful than all the ‘my husband would never do that!!!!!!!!’

@ThinkOfABetterUsername
Hmmm. So men really want kids, they really want to settle down. And they lie about that to get a family. Then they realize it's all hard work and decide they don't fancy it after all.

I think a lot of men want a live in lover and housekeeper and think the idea of kids and passing on their DNA is nice. So they tell their DP’s what the DP wants to hear so they’ll stay. They don’t really think at all about the nitty gritty and what’s involved in a 50/50 commitment - most women don’t even realise how much work is involved - and when it comes to the crunch they duck out because there is far less pressure on them, internal or external, to step up.

Tbf, I think it’s also the case that women frequently lie to themselves about mixed messages they receive.

I never understand this suggestion. She already has a babysitter take her kids out on a Sunday afternoon. How would this be fair on her children?

If I'm honest I don't really agree with your first paragraph, I think men are well aware of how hard having kids is and that is the reason men are typically way less keen. ...but its not too extreme so let's assume that whole first paragraph is true.

I think the second paragraph is a little unfair too, because (although I agree people who want something often hear what they want to hear) if there are mixed messages you can bet it's because the receiver of the mixed messages doesn't respond well to the unvarnished truth. But let's assume that's true as well.

If all of your post is 100pc correct isn't that all the more reason to agree clearly in advance what's going to happen and ensure both people are 100pc commited and planning to willingly make the required sacrifices? The divorce count in this thread is steadily ticking up and it appears a vast number of children are being brought into an overcrowded world where one parent wasn't enthusiastic enough to make all the required sacrifices. (and even the parent who was enthusiastic is quite happy to only have 50pc of the benefit of them - I bet that fact wasn't raised pre-pregnancy!!!!!)

@NumberTheory

Is 150% correct

Men are less keen to have children because they either dont want them or they are not ready to 'settle down' (ie they still think they have 'it' and can have sex with multiple woman)

Nothing to do with the calculations done as to how much works in it. Its not that deep

@ThinkOfABetterUsername

If I'm honest I don't really agree with your first paragraph, I think men are well aware of how hard having kids is and that is the reason men are typically way less keen. ...but its not too extreme so let's assume that whole first paragraph is true.

I don’t think childless women are really that aware of the work involved in having children and they are much closer to it than men. If you ask men and women as separate classes about what’s involved I think women would come out with a much more realistic estimate of the actual work than men would. So I don’t agree that mens’ aversion is because they are more realistic. I think it’s because they are much less likely to value having children and bringing them up to be people in their own right. I think nurturing in that sense is a value that is taught to women far more than men.

I agree that what I’ve said sounds like a good reason to really talk about expectations and nail down some of the detail and consider what-if’s etc.. But that’s not how most of humanity approaches relationships and when it doesn’t happen it isn’t the woman’s fault anymore than the mans’. And, realistically, it isn’t the way 99% of people run their lives outside of the workplace, so it seems unlikely it could be a realistic mechanism for tackling this sort of inequality.

Ok, well that's certainly true.

So a very clear agreement in advance explaining in detail the drawbacks is a perfect opportunity for the reluctant party to say "Nah, I'd rather play golf." and the more keen party to say "Ok, I'll find someone who does want children as much as me and will put as much effort into caring for them as me.".

Problem solved. Far better than kids who aren't fully cared for by both parents and a divorce.

You need to plan things each Saturday for yourself until he gets the message.

So we're agreed men typically do less to help with kids.

...And we agree that men typically don't desperately crave kids.

So the problem isn't men not helping, the problem is that children are being created without total commitment on both sides. And it seems likely that the partner who is keenest on having children is driving that!

I don't think anyone who doesn't have kids is aware of how hard and risky it is. (In fact those of us lucky enough to have healthy kids probably aren't aware of how many bullets we dodged.)

However I really don't agree that women have a more accurate assessment than men, and again if women do have a more accurate assessment than men they should be really spelling it out. Explaining what a terrible idea it is and how hard it will be. Then if the guy insists on having kids still he really will be committed to giving up golf and doing his fair share.

I am not sure all the chat on
'Well didn't you discuss division of labour and childcare before having them?'
is actually useful to @Summer1980US

Whether she had the conversation or not, she's told us her current predicament.

DH needs to do more and give up golf every week

@Summer1980US just wondering what the set up was like growing up for DH? Did his mum do all the childcare and was a SAHM?

Yes, it's not useful to the OP. (Unless they are planning number 3 as one poster suggested!)

It's a digression because someone suggested better agreement up front and someone else said that was patronising and misery and divorce better alternatives to patronising each other for thirty minutes. (Strangely, discussing the benefits of children isn't patronising, only the drawbacks.)

But yes, this doesn't help the OP. Sounds like what would help the OP would be to fork out for five hours of childcare on Saturday mornings so she can do what she wants to do.

.....never get involved with anyone who shows the slightest interest in golf.

Too late for you, OP, of course. I'm putting it out there as a general principle.

Why do you put up with it?

He's taking thd absolute p@#s tell him you feel like a single parent. My blood is boiling for you.

I’m so exhausted and overwhelmed from being the main caregiver. I know men are generally less involved with DD, but at this stage I feel like he is really taking the piss!!

Why do you think men are generally less involved? They are HIS kids too and you are both working full time! You are enabling his routine! Sit down with him, point out the reality of the situation for you and work out a new routine that is most definitely more balanced!!

And remember - him spending time with the kids, doing the washing/cleaning/shopping whatever ...is NOT him "doing you a favour" or "being pretty good" - it is him playing a more equal part in making family life happen and in bringing up BOTH of yours kids!!

@Summer1980US

You absolutely don't need to go out to get a break. You discuss free time and agree how much is reasonable for each of you. Eg 5 hours each over the week. He plays golf and you do what the hell you like with your time. If that's sitting in your bedroom and locking the door with a cup if tea and a book that is what you should do. Don't let your DH make you feel that that isn't a valid use of your free time. He does not feel guilty about leaving you with the kids, do NOT feel guilty about taking time out.

I'd say you are BOTH being unreasonable.
Your children are the joint responsibility of both of you and your husband should do more to support and assist you.
However, given the hours he works, you need to accept that he needs some time to unwind.

Why do I strongly suspect that the OPs husband is not working flat out during his 12 hour plus work days?

Judging by the description of how he spends the weekends avoiding childcare I bet he’s one of those men in the office always having long brainstorming sessions or ‘networking’ meetings, then pissing about on the internet until his wife has fed and bathed the children. Whereas his female colleagues who have young children focus and work solidly from 9-5 and achieve exactly the same as him workwise.

I agree with this ...my husband often (not always) will play a round of golf however difference is

1. He gets earliest Tee time possible to be back at a reasonable time
2. Often takes over kid duty when back so I can have a long bath / go for a walk/ something else I fancy doing. Or we will do something as a family...just depends on what we have planned
3. We get one lie in each over the weekend, he chooses to use his for golf ...I actually do lie in

1. He encourages me to see friends as much as possible, and do hobbies the odd evening during the week

1. We share drop off / pick ups / watching children when I'll during the week

Why are you putting up with this ? He is massively taking the piss. You need to arrange something for a Saturday and leave him to it.

How sad why doesn’t he want to look after his children no wonder you are exhausted Tell him cut his golf down just an excuse to get out of the house