Does your children's high school give demit points...

[senneeds]

Our local high schools give demerit points to kids who are late, have lost or forgotten things, have not handed in homework etc; if a child gets a certain number of points they get dentition.

I was wondering if other people's high school's do the same?

I ask because I was diagnosed with ADHD in my 50s... and I don't remember my high school giving out demerit points for these behaviours; it bothers me a lot that this happens in our local schools because a child being late, losing and forgetting things and not handing in homework are all ADHD traits.

A child can not get diagnosed as having ADHD unless they have evidence of these behaviours - so does that mean our schools are effectively punishing kids for their disabilities?

And while some schools might make allowances for the kids with ADHD and other SENs which have known executive function deficits...how about the kids who have not been diagnosed yet? It can't be great for their self esteem to be getting the message that how their brain works is so undesirable that they need to be punished or threatened with punishment.

I found a survey by ADHD UK who surveyed 800 teachers and found that 74% of these teachers did not recognise difficulty with organisation to be a symptom of ADHD and 78% did not recognise difficulty interacting socially to be a symptom of ADHD. adhduk.co.uk/teachers-and-adhd/

I also found this article about ADHD in the classroom thought provoking:
www.fintanoregan.com/fairness-isnt-giving-everybody-the-same-its-giving-everybody-what-they-need/

YANBU - yes my local high school gives demerit points to kids who are late, have lost or forgotten things, have not handed in homework etc.

YABU - no my local high school does not give demerit points to kids who are late, have lost or forgotten things, have not handed in homework etc.

What does ADHD got to give with getting demerit points?

If your children are often late, and repeatedly do not hand in homework on time, I'd expect them to get demerit points. What exactly is your problem here?

The demerits can act as the evidence such children need to help with a diagnosis.

If a child is regularly getting demerit points for the same thing then it is surely obvious to the parents and the school that that is an area they need more support it? If anything it can be a postive for having evidence of need.

Ds has ADHD and ASD and when he doesn't give in homework he gets a "behaviour point". Thoroughly deserved because it's normally because he couldn't be bothered, and will freely admit that.

We have similar. Appropriate allowances are made for students with SEND for a whole range of things in school, including this. Also as others have said a recorded pattern of a particular type of behaviour can be helpful evidence.

My son’s school gives ‘demerit’ points out (although they are called something different) and they proved useful both in identifying aspects of his adhd and also as evidence for his diagnosis.
He still gets them occasionally and I don’t think he should be exempt because he has adhd.

I used to get demerit points for being late/not doing homework/talking in class.

Should kids not be punished for poor behaviour because it might be ADHD?

My kids' high school issues demerit points... and my child who gets demerits has ADHD. They rarely get demerits (so I'm hopeful the school makes some SEND allowances) but when they do it's been for not concentrating in class and, once, for forgetting equipment. (I know demerit points can be issued for late arrival but I drop my kids off so they're never late. I also try my best to stay on top of homework so it gets completed on time.)

I haven’t voted because your choice of words is not neutral.
My school gives detentions for lateness and homework but it’s not unreasonable.
Students with diagnosed SEN receive support with homework and timekeeping. Undiagnosed SEN is recognised earlier by having a system which captures data and repeat transgressors are worked with to work out why they are not able to comply.

To add - my son has ASD and has had one detention in three years despite needing help with organisation.

My child attended a secondary school that gave demerits and detentions for things like this.

My child is disabled and has an EHCP, and struggles massively with organisational skills and time keeping. She was still given demerits every time, and despite speaking to the SENCO repeatedly about this and asking for more support it didnt change. The staff didn't make allowances due to her disability, and didn't work out that it was glaringly obvious that she needed more support.

This was one for many things that happened which lead to DD developing appalling school induced anxiety and emotionally based school non attendance. She now attends a special school, which was probably not really necessary as she has no learning disabilities.

I have since heard of another disabled child leaving the school for similar reasons, so the school hasn't learnt, and apparently doesn't care enough to change their policy. It's almost like it's a planned strategy to get rid of those undesirable disbaled children 🤔

Sadly bad schools will always find a way to push out. It’s so wrong.

I am lucky Ds has an ehcp with full 1-1 and his school adapt things to him we have had some issues but they have been quickly resolved

ADHD, Autism and Dyslexia can all 'cause' organisational issues despite the child's best efforts or intentions. Therefore these children are being discriminated against because of their special needs and the school's 'one size fits all' approach to discipline. That is, I think, the point the OP was trying to make. And it's the reason I left secondary mainstream education and went into special education where each child is treated as the individual they are, and ordanisational skills are taught and lack of those skills is accepted, not punished.

Every secondary school teacher and those running schools desperately need training in how to deal with kids with autism and ADD, as they are failing so many children. Also most schools are just too massive for any child to do well. Too anonymous, too many for teachers to deal with, classes too big, noisy and chaotic in corridors. Secondary school is an unpleasant and stressful experience. I don't understand why we shove kids into these massive silos, it's crazy.

If your child has ADHD then you may have to work harder at getting them to school on time, and making sure that they have done their homework, but I don’t think it unreasonable that the school still expects that you do.

Doing your work and being on time are crucial skills for survival in the adult world as an employee; children are being done no favour by being allowed to let those slip.

Agreed that these are life skills.

Sadly, in a mainstream school it is often assumed that children automatically can do these things, whereas in reality some children need them to be explicitly taught and repeated.

What is your answer? Have no form of punishment or acknowledgment for repeated lateness, lack of homework or not brining they appropriate materials incase the child possibly, might be, coups have undiagnosed ADHD?

No of course not.

An answer would be to make school staff more aware of traits of ADHD etc, ensure they can identify and then assess children.
An answer is not to punish children for something they cannot control without help; and giving a child 30seconds reasonable adjustment time to respond (as I was instructed to do in mainstream) is ignorant.

Of course there will always be the NT kid who couldn't be arsed to do his homework so 'left it at home on the kuchen table', but equally there will always be the ND/SEN kid who spent hours trying to complete the homework and made a stellar effort but still failed to pack it in their schoolbag because of their dyslexia etc.

I'm all for kids getting demerits if they're deserved. I'm against kids being punished and belittled because of something that they can not control yet.

Behaviour points. Same thing. Different name.

Most children do not have undiagnosed ADHD.

Demerits would usually be available for parents to see on an online portal, so they could see that Johnny was racking up points for not bringing equipment or homework or whatever.

One would then hope that parents would support Johnny in organisation to make sure that he has equipment, does his homework etc.

Some students I teach with ADHD are the ones with the best stocked pencil cases because their parents make sure that they have systems for remembering equipment and support them with this. Things like having a separate pencil case at home for homework so the school one never leaves the bag. Having a checklist that is gone through before leaving the house that is stuck to the front door. Laminated timetables attached to school bags.

ADHD doesn't mean 'can't remember to bring a pencil so write them off on this sort of thing', ADHD means 'may need support in organisation'. Obviously allowances need to be made for diagnosed SEN - those can sometimes be workarounds like keeping a pencil case in the classroom for that student.

Stopping an entire school behaviour system because some children might have undiagnosed SEN even if it could be useful to have those behaviours flagged up as a recurring issue would rather be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

With regards to children with executive disfunction difficulties-

It is easier to remember your pencil case, as that is something you need every day. And easy for parents to support this.

PE kits, various aprons and food/equipment for technology less so. Especially when requests are made in class to bring in kit for a one off event, for e.g. food when cooking, PE kit for a drama session when they're covering dance. If you have a child like mine theyre unlikely to remember a request made in class, even if they do write it somewhere, and a parent has no clue the request has been made.

Likewise, a parent can ensure a child arrives in school in time, but cannot ensure a child arrives to each lesson on time. So if they're regularly faffing around with their stuff at their locker and then arrive to class late, support needs to be provided by school, and if this isn't available then it is unfair to issue a demerit.

With homework, it is easy to for parent to support when homework added to an app and clear instructions given. Less so if not added to the app or the instructions don't make sense to the parent who wasn't in class, or the child who has since forgotten.

I found it very difficult to support my child with their organisational skills for these reasons. My child never forgot their pencil case or stuff I thought it would be obvious they would need based on the timetable and what I recall from my school days 30 years ago. But there was still so much missed because it was communicated to the students and usually instanstly forgotten by my DC.

So if they're regularly faffing around with their stuff at their locker and then arrive to class late, support needs to be provided by school, and if this isn't available then it is unfair to issue a demerit.

How does the school know that the child needs support with punctuality to lessons if this isn't recorded anywhere?

Well in the case of my child it was all written in their EHCP. I mean I'm not talking about an undiagnosed child here. Their difficulties were well documented.

In our day someone who was constantly forgetting things would be constantly told off/get a detention. Surely it's better to record what areas a kid is struggling with so a strategy can be worked on than just tell them off all the time.

Schools need to have a way of maintaining good discipline and learning.