AIBU To Remind Everyone That Self ID Was A Tory Policy?

[TooBigForMyBoots]

I've seen so many posts over the past few years with people urging us to vote Tory because at least the Conservatives know what a woman is.🙄

This is nonsense for the following reasons:

1. The Tories introduced Self ID under Theresa May's GRA Reform and Penny Mordaunt championed it.
2. Tory MPs have reported women to the police for retweeting AHF posts and tweets by JKR.
3. Trans contagion amongst teens happened under the Tory government.
4. Trans women in women's spaces such as hospitals and prisons and Girl Guides happened under the Tory government.
5. Rape in hospital that isn't considered "rape" because there was no man present? Tory government.
6. It's a Trojan Horse. Bridgend Tories won the seat with a small majority. Their Tory MP, once safely in his seat announced that he was trans and intended to become a woman. I am gutted for any GC/feminist voters who held their nose and voted Conservative only to end up with Jamie Wallace.
7. In the latest leadership race, Penny TWAW Mordaunt nearly became our new prime minister. Few (if any)Tories gave a fuck about her well documented TWAW stance.
8. 1 week after Starmer refused to answer "what is a woman?", PM Boris Johnson did the same. This was not publicised to anywhere near the same extent.

So some Tories know what a woman is.
Some Tories don't.
Most don't give a shit about women or their rights either way, they're just happy to use us in their culture wars.🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️

But my point politically is that ALL parties are as weak as each other on this point

But they're not. The Tories have made a clear stance of protecting single sex spaces. Lynne Featherstone has told any woman who doesn't agree to intact males having full, unfettered access to female spaces to stay out of the party.

I don't vote Tory, so I don't appreciate having to reiterate the fact thar they're right on point of fact here. But your statement just isn't true.

That would be this delightful chap...

He's taking a leaf out of Gordon Browns book, if you don't like what someone says just call them a bigot.

It definitely isn't. I rarely mention the parties I vote for and if you saw one of these rare posts you would know that Conservative/Labour/Lib dems don't feature at all.

I don't tell people who to vote for. I don't even make suggestions.

You may rarely mention the parties you vote for but you regularly sneeringly deride anyone who even considers voting conservative.
I can read. It's always you popping up and ignoring facts like the cross party introduction of self I'd I've seen you ignore this point on countless other threads too.
Can't work out if you are genuinely self unaware of just gaslighting now.

I don't sneeringly deride voters. I criticise the Conservative government for the damage they have done to women over the twelve years they've been in power.

Most policies come from Cross party committees. MPs work on them all the time in all the departments. The ruling party decides which ones to promote to/adopt as policy. In the case of Self ID, it was the Tories.

Maybe we should play,

Whose Policy Is It Now?!

I suspect that five years ago many of us who now think it's a terrible idea thought it was fine, so it's difficult to see that your point is relevant, OP.

I am generally glad when a political party is able to see that a policy they thought was good, actually isn't, and change their mind. If only all the other parties didn't seem incapable of that it was more common.

You may think that. I disagree. The general tone of this particular hobby horse does not come across how you intend.

Most policies come from Cross party committees. MPs work on them all the time in all the departments. The ruling party decides which ones to promote to/adopt as policy. In the case of Self ID, it was the Tories.

Which they followed up with a public consultation, they listened to and acted on the responses to that. Self ID isn't a Tory policy and lots of government departments are leaving the various stonewall schemes which promoted stonewall law.

There is a lot to go at with the Tories but your inaccurate framing of this issue does you no favours.

Most policies come from Cross party committees. MPs work on them all the time in all the departments. The ruling party decides which ones to promote to/adopt as policy. In the case of Self ID, it was the Tories.

I won't use caps because it would seem aggressive but please imagine I have a loud hailer...

All parties accepted the recommendations of a cross party report on reforming the GRA. The party of government undertook a public consultation process and decided they would not proceed with the recommendation to introduce self ID.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Not all Tories know what a woman is and unfortunately those who do aren't planning to do anything much for us anytime soon.

However some Tories have been able to articulate biological reality without being badly treated by their party. Something that other parties to their shame, have yet to allow.

Keir Starmer could change this. And won't.

Give over, your posts are full of anti-capitalist and anti-conservative content. You clearly look down on anyone who doesn’t share your political views, which in turn are clearly well to the left of the mainstream

I could speculate, but fear it’d breach the rules.

It’s simply dishonest for Citizen Smith above to pretend it was Conservative party policy. Her attempts to divert attention from the other parties’ manifesto commitments on this are pretty poor.

God, if anyone read Mumsnet to get a view of the UK you'd think we were overrun with trans people committing evil acts daily! I don't think I've ever noticed a trans woman in a toilet or hospital ward that I was in - but frankly I'm far more concerned about public toilet provision in general and people actually being able to get a hospital appointment/surgery booked in then what genitals someone was born with in the cubicle next to me.

The monomania of some of the woman on here is something I just can't relate too. Let's crack on and elect a government who is actually going to fund rape crisis centres, help single mums who are struggling to pay for a food shop, invests in education for girls so that they can have the same opportunity as boys! (Hint - it won't be a Tory government whatever their view on 'self ID')

Let's crack on and elect a government who is actually going to fund rape crisis centres

Will it allow traumatised women to request female born rape counsellors?

It's nice to pretend that defining women has nothing to do with protecting them but it's as much a load of crap as the insistence that you can't tell almost everyone's sex without seeing their genitals.

Well how are rape crisis centres useful for female rape survivors when they aren't even allowed to ask for single sex provision.

It's not about trans people being evil or the nicest people ever who just want to pee. It's about women being entitled to single sex space and being named in law.

Honest to god count yoursf lucky if it doesn't effect you, but there are plenty of women and girls who it does.

Or not understanding how such a redefinition interacts with the law?

Supporting these new kinds of laws around thought-crime.

Aggressively suppressing parts of their own party with concerns and trying to have them removed/expose them?

Exactly! It wasn't like this before the Tories. It happened because of their policies. It happened on their watch.

It's hardly a controversial thing to say.

I'd also point out, that some of the trends around this stuff are throughout the English speaking world. We can look at how more left leaning or liberal type governments have operated in other places. In terms of gender ideology they have often already instantiated self-id policies and made things like refusing to use preferred pronouns a hate crime.

But they have also tended strongly to these kinds of authoritarian policies.

Look at what was the most lauded liberal party in recent years to be elected, the Liberal Party of Canada under Trudeau. People on the left in many countries were swooning for a good long while. Apart from anything else he's failed to deliver on (real environmental policy, anyone) he has been incredibly authoritarian and made it clear that anyone who disagrees with him "doesn't have Canadian values". In his mind, the values of the progressive elites are the values of the nation and those who don't hold those values don't deserve a place at the table. He won't talk to them, answer the questions the media puts to him, will maybe even freeze their bank accounts.

Would Labour be that bad? I sure hope not but I have no assurance that they don't have the same authoritarian thinking at their heart, it seems to be what they are indicating with all of their actions so far, in terms of the powers they have now.

No it happened because of the influence of the likes of stonewall who wilfully misrepresented the law.Yes, the Tories should have acted sooner to prevent this, but i fear the situation would be much worse on this issue if labour, lib dems or greens were in power. Much like the situation in Scotland under the SNP, or Labour who allow males on all women shortlists and give them positions as women's officers.

Bottom line is op, conservatives are the only party who have made noises and steps towards reversing the damage. You'd have us all vote Labour and then try and persuade them to change course when they are very clearly still commited to men's rights activism.
No thank you.
If you really want people to vote otherwise sort your own house out.

God, if anyone read Mumsnet to get a view of the UK you'd think we were overrun with trans people committing evil acts daily!

Yes, God indeed.

If any man can claim to be a transwoman do you really think it's transwomen we're concerned about? We're more concerned about the law of unintended consequences and the fact the self ID doesn't allow for adequate mitigation against the risk of sexual predators abusing it.

The endless whataboutery is so, so, so disingenuous.

You can't divorce the definition of a woman from rights and services for women. You can't create socio-political policies without being able to define and recognise socio-political classes.

You're not a progressive, liberal thinker by taking the concept of "man" and "woman" out of policies that affect men and women differently. You've just happened on a particular dishonest and absurd form of whataboutery.

And if you can't generally tell almost everyone's sex without seeing their genitals, you shouldn't be out in public by yourself anyway.

Stonewall and others did this, mainly operating in the shadows, while solidly supported by your fellow travelers.

Now that the truth is out, the Government is starting to deal with it.

I'm sorry but the vast majority of rape crisis centres do include trans woman and continue to function just fine - if they're closed due to lack of government funding that's surely far worse than allowing a trans woman who's raped to access a vital service. There will be nuanced edge cases which need to be handled sensitively, but the idea that this is the most pressing issue for the women involved vs the actual existence of the centres in the first place is just nonsense.

OK, things have got a bit heated here.
I don't have any fellow travellers.
I don't look down on anyone who doesn't share my political views.
I am not being dishonest.
I certainly don't want to take the "man" and "woman" out of policies that affect men and women differently.

I am not pretending it was Conservative party policy, I'm stating it as fact. Theresa May announced it. They may be making noises about undoing the damage, but it's not enough. Not even close and they could easily do another u-turn on it. Criticising the government and their record on women's rights is not "Whataboutery".

And I am nothing more than a WC feminist on Mnet. No shadey groups or allegiances. Just me.