AIBU To Remind Everyone That Self ID Was A Tory Policy?

[TooBigForMyBoots]

I've seen so many posts over the past few years with people urging us to vote Tory because at least the Conservatives know what a woman is.🙄

This is nonsense for the following reasons:

1. The Tories introduced Self ID under Theresa May's GRA Reform and Penny Mordaunt championed it.
2. Tory MPs have reported women to the police for retweeting AHF posts and tweets by JKR.
3. Trans contagion amongst teens happened under the Tory government.
4. Trans women in women's spaces such as hospitals and prisons and Girl Guides happened under the Tory government.
5. Rape in hospital that isn't considered "rape" because there was no man present? Tory government.
6. It's a Trojan Horse. Bridgend Tories won the seat with a small majority. Their Tory MP, once safely in his seat announced that he was trans and intended to become a woman. I am gutted for any GC/feminist voters who held their nose and voted Conservative only to end up with Jamie Wallace.
7. In the latest leadership race, Penny TWAW Mordaunt nearly became our new prime minister. Few (if any)Tories gave a fuck about her well documented TWAW stance.
8. 1 week after Starmer refused to answer "what is a woman?", PM Boris Johnson did the same. This was not publicised to anywhere near the same extent.

So some Tories know what a woman is.
Some Tories don't.
Most don't give a shit about women or their rights either way, they're just happy to use us in their culture wars.🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Yes, I know I don't have to agree, thank you.

I don't vote Conservative either. But I don't follow your logic here. You say that another party can be more easily persuaded of what a woman is than the Tories, even though the Tories are so far the only party to make a clear statement on it. Are you actually thinking this through?

Niche issue which affects over 50% of the global population.

Within every social, ethnic and geographic group women are aborted, raped, abused, murdered, paid less, held accountable for all society's evils and are second class citizens. The fact that some wealthier women can mitigate this to some extent does not change that.

Erasing sex as a protected characteristic (which I note Stonewall have removed from their site but still push for) and denying biology is not even in the interest of trans people.

The question always is Cui Bono - who benefits from the erasure of women as a sex class and removal of provisions to address the disadvantages of female sex? Who benefits from reinforcing outdated stereotyped gender constructs for women?

First and foremost the beneficiaries are men.

@ImWell - yes, a slide towards it. Not actual fasism but further in that direction than our start point.

I like accountability and balances and checks to power in a political system. I dont like moves to remove them.

@ReneBumsWombats - no, my stance is I believe that another party can be more easily persauded what a women is, if we have an accountable government with checks and balances and a right to protest, than we can restore an accountable government with checks and balances after 5 more years of tory rule despite some of them knowing what a woman is.

Ireland has a problem that the law which protects women from pregnancy discrimination has to remove the word woman because of self ID.

Cant have words to id the bleeders or breeders.

How much of the everyday sexism is about semantics?

You think a law which would force you to provide social companions to a male want to be murder/rapist, is going to allow you to challange a bepenised in what you think should be a single sex space?

No, this still doesn't follow. Even if it's an objective fact that the Tories are sliding towards fascism, they are still the only ones who currently are prepared to state what a woman is. So how can you argue that a different party could be more easily persuaded of what a woman is than the party stating it already?

There are not moves to remove them. The left love to pretend that the Conservatives plan to tear up our beloved rights and institutions, yet despite them having been in power for most of the last century and all of the last twelve years that hasn’t happened.

By contrast Labour we’re taking about expropriating people’s property just ahead of the 2019 election, to redistribute it to their own voting base.

No, I’m far happier under the Conservatives for any number of reasons than under any other party. The fact that they are right on this issue is just another reason to lean that way.

That’s not to say that I support them; I don’t, but they are the least-worst option available.

I think we should all vote in accordance with our conscience but I'm genuinely interested in your view that there are other parties who are more respectful of the democratic process.

I am seeing a tendency towards authoritarianism on the left. Women in Labour, SNP and Greens have been subjected to sustained bullying campaigns within their own parties because they will not toe the line on self ID. Starmer has resisted even meeting with the Labour Party Women's declaration until now, Rosie Duffield has been subjected to terrible bullying and has recently held onto her seat after trial by party process. When senior Labour Party members do speak publicly they either refuse to make their views clear or resort to insulting anyone who has expressed concerns.

Labour and the LibDems don't want my vote if I won't agree with them on this issue. Can you think of any other issue where a party has told potential members or voters to toe the line or fuck off?

I can't even be bothered to detail the utter shit show which is the Green Party and what they've put party members through, it's truly shocking, some are pursuing legal action. I could understand them trying to find another reason for existing if we'd already sorted out climate change but...

I cannot see a single party who supports self ID respecting democracy. Our current Conservative government seem to be libertarians which upsets their socially conservative supporters so I'd say they are about a million miles from fascism.

Labour and the LibDems don't want my vote if I won't agree with them on this issue. Can you think of any other issue where a party has told potential members or voters to toe the line or fuck off?

To add to this: women are being criticised for being single issue voters over this. Yet the parties themselves are telling voters who don't fall in line on this one matter to fuck off entirely.

Why is this the one issue for which there is no room for any dissent whatsoever? And why are women voters being blamed for responding accordingly?

@ReneBumsWombats because i am not saying that a party can be more easily persauded what a woman is compared to another party already saying what a woman is as that would ba daft.

I am saying that i believe it is easier to persaude a party on what a woman is than persaude another party over a completley different issue which is more important to me as it impact on my ability to fight for lots of issues.

So i think its easier to persaude person a to eat custard than person b to go on a bike ride

There was a tweet shown on another thread by a shadow cabinet minister literally saying to a constituent, in response to a polite question about Mermaids, that he didn’t want votes off a bigot.

The job of an MP is to represent their constituents, not tell them to fuck off if they aren’t on board with the agenda on trans issues.

Why will it be easier to persuade Labour/LD of what a woman is only after you've voted them in? Why can't they do it now?

Has anyone mentioned that the Tories are moving further to the right on abortion?

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/jul/27/senior-tory-urges-liz-truss-to-explain-deletion-of-abortion-rights-from-statement-caroline-nokes

@FOJN - those are very interesting points and more relevant to mine. Yes I agree that labour comes across as very authoritarian. I wouldnt vote for them either. As far as I am aware they havent spoken about leaving the echr though or spoken much about limiting judicial review which are important to me.

I live in an area where they have one of those alliances so i dont get to vote freely as it were. I previously voted for a single issue candidate on the NHS and then I had lib dem or conservative or independent last time.

Agree. Why would a party change after they have the votes? They will take it as a mandate for what they ran on

Laws will change and take years to reverse if ever. All the ground gained would be lost. It has taken years for women speaking and focusing on this to get us to this point, only to lose it

Madness to rely on a change after a vote

There are forced birthers on both sides of the house and in the smaller parties. They all have a good number of members trying to chip away at abortion rights, this is not the preserve of any one party.

Well yes Rene and that's the issue.

I have nonissue with any man saying they are a woman or woman saying they are a man.

I know a trans woman and it's far more complicated than that in reality for many trans a people. For example she doesn't feel safe in male facilities but won't use woman's facilities out of respect. But when she uses accessible facilities she gets bullied for that too.

My issue is that they allow TW into biological woman spaces.

But my point politically is that ALL parties are as weak as each other on this point IMO therefore when I come to vote it's not an issue I vote on. I think whatever party is in power we need to work on making sure everyone has a safe space and there are 3rd spaces.

So I won't be voting Tory again because if their current inability to run the country as a cohesive party - not on this point alone.

And I may vote for another party despite them having the same stance or rather lack of on the trans issue if I think they can benefit me and the country in other ways.

@ReneBumsWombats - it wont be easier to get them to change their mind once elected than before they are elected and yes once lost rights take years to win back.

I think you must have me mixed up with someone else @DobbyHasASock , I have no slavishness to tribal politics. I decide on the day. Nor have I been hyperbolic. I'm just telling the truth about the Conservative party: They are responsible for the erosion and damage to women's rights over the past 12 years with their policies, including Self ID🤷‍♀️

Well put OP!

But they don’t have a policy of self-ID, and your posts absolutely do show an obsession with the Conservatives.

They are responsible for the erosion and damage to women's rights over the past 12 years with their policies, including Self ID

The tories don't have a self id policy. They proposed it, held a consultation and actually listened to and acted on the responses.

There is unofficial self ID but much of that is a result of stonewalls legally incorrect advice under the guise of the stonewall champions scheme etc. Thankfully many government departments are now leaving that scheme.

Just like you'll find support and opposition of Self ID across the parties. The Conservative Bill of Rights is bad news for women and I think it's being opposed by all the other parties. Not that it will make any difference, the Tories have a massive majority.
www.endviolenceagainstwomen.org.uk/british-bill-of-rights-major-step-back-for-women-and-survivors/

No its definitely you.

Here's a summary of the main political parties manifestos from the last election. The Conservatives are the only ones not making a commitment to self ID.

uncommongroundmedia.com/where-each-party-stands-on-self-id-and-womens-rights/

In fact despite TM's words the Tory Party have never put a commitment to self ID in any of their manifestos.

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/18/theresa-may-plans-to-let-people-change-gender-without-medical-checks

Self ID has never been a Conservative party policy or manifesto pledge. Their failing has been to allow lobby groups to charge companies for providing incorrect information on the law and for not challenging creeping self ID sooner.