AIBU To Remind Everyone That Self ID Was A Tory Policy?

[TooBigForMyBoots]

I've seen so many posts over the past few years with people urging us to vote Tory because at least the Conservatives know what a woman is.🙄

This is nonsense for the following reasons:

1. The Tories introduced Self ID under Theresa May's GRA Reform and Penny Mordaunt championed it.
2. Tory MPs have reported women to the police for retweeting AHF posts and tweets by JKR.
3. Trans contagion amongst teens happened under the Tory government.
4. Trans women in women's spaces such as hospitals and prisons and Girl Guides happened under the Tory government.
5. Rape in hospital that isn't considered "rape" because there was no man present? Tory government.
6. It's a Trojan Horse. Bridgend Tories won the seat with a small majority. Their Tory MP, once safely in his seat announced that he was trans and intended to become a woman. I am gutted for any GC/feminist voters who held their nose and voted Conservative only to end up with Jamie Wallace.
7. In the latest leadership race, Penny TWAW Mordaunt nearly became our new prime minister. Few (if any)Tories gave a fuck about her well documented TWAW stance.
8. 1 week after Starmer refused to answer "what is a woman?", PM Boris Johnson did the same. This was not publicised to anywhere near the same extent.

So some Tories know what a woman is.
Some Tories don't.
Most don't give a shit about women or their rights either way, they're just happy to use us in their culture wars.🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️

nobody apart from a few people on Mumsnet and twitter give a flying fuck about gender. Its really not on anyone's agenda, you know that right?

Every single person I know in RL has concerns around this nonsense. I know you want this to be true but it really isn't.

Well you obviously mix with people who can afford to worry about niche issues then. Good for you. Everyone i know is more worried about how we are going to pay for fuel and food this winter than what politicians think about trans people.

Well you obviously mix with people who can afford to worry about niche issues then. Good for you.

I'm a single parent with two disabled children.

It wasn’t a claim. It was a genuine question. And to my shame I completely forgot about Rosie Duffield and of course Joanna Cherry.

It was Green, LibDem and Labour men and women who were first sounding the alarm when Theresa May's government were loudly parroting TWAW So where were they when Rosie was receiving death threats? Where were they when the Greens were working with a certain individual who I believe then went on to be a mod for a popular internet site? Where were they when Labour and Lib Dem women were being told to leave the party if they didn’t accept that twaw? Genuine question. Other than Rosie and Joanna, who is standing up to the current gender policies of their party?

Quite frankly, the Conservatives have a nerve claiming they're the party for women Completely agree with you. They’re bloody awful and have done huge amounts to make things worse for women. I’m not a Tory voter. But my point still stands. If this is an issue that will affect your vote, the Tories are the best of a bad bunch.

Desperate? No

Just tired of seeing this lie peddled thread after thread and having to correct the same misconceptions about this issue again and again.🙄 It's time it was put to bed.

The Conservatives are responsible for the Self ID shitshow.
The Conservatives are responsible for the Trans shitshow.

They also refused to make misogyny a Hate Crime. Or enshrine the right to abortion or single sex spaces into their new Bill of Rights. A piece of legistlation that attacks the rights of all in the UK with some bits that will particularly hurt women.

That's on top of all the usual Tory economic policies that damage women.

The Conservatives are responsible for the Self ID shitshow.
The Conservatives are responsible for the Trans shitshow.

That still doesn’t change anything though, does it? If your vote is based on this issue then it’s going to be a case of which party currently has the most gender critical ideology. And at the moment, that remains the Tories.

Is it really a niche issue? Basically erasing single sex rights seems like a big deal to me.

I will not vote Tory, but I also won’t vote for any party that thinks men can be women, because that’s disastrous for women.

I have more respect for a party that changes their mind because they realise they were wrong than one that sticks with a policy because they said it first.

Although I'm less impressed by someone who changes their mind depending on what they think is going to be popular. In fairness to BJ (which I probably rarely am) I don't think this is one he's changed his mind due to popularity either, which also seems to be a rarity.

I said this on one of the threads about Kemi Badenoch but it bears repeating - knowing what a woman is doesn't qualify you to run the country.

No, but acting as if you don't know is the sort of either dishonesty or stupidity that should disqualify you in my book.

It is quite a niche issue @SecretMoomin and one that the Tories don't give a monkeys about. Penny Mordaunt made it into third place in the parliamentary leadership race. If it had been important to MPs, she would have been knocked out earlier.

Had she made it into the last two, she was a shoe-in for our next Prime Minister.😱 If TWAW argument was important that wouldn't have been the case.🤷‍♀️

As it stands, she'll probably get a cabinet post.

“It was Green, LibDem and Labour men and women who were first sounding the alarm when Theresa May's government were loudly parroting TWAW
So where were they when Rosie was receiving death threats? Where were they when the Greens were working with a certain individual who I believe then went on to be a mod for a popular internet site? Where were they when Labour and Lib Dem women were being told to leave the party if they didn’t accept that twaw? Genuine question. Other than Rosie and Joanna, who is standing up to the current gender policies of their party?”

Well, many are still there, still standing up for women’s rights. Did you think those people have all changed their minds?
They are still there now. Many took no notice of the fanatics demanding they leave. They prefer to stay and fight, and they’ve already done a lot of work. Don’t belittle their efforts.

I know literally no-one who worries about paying for fuel, but a great many women who fear their fundamental rights are under threat.

Whatever government was in power had to address this as most other progressive countries have in recent years

what party will listen to many women concerns and what party will ignore many women’s concerns that is more the issue

And, again, did you post this without having heard the AG’s speech, or because of it?

OK OP let's go with the self ID shit show is all the Tories fault and they hate women.

So we can say that under the Tories we've had a trial run of self ID and it hasn't turned out very well as the list in your OP details.

In light of this experience they have changed their mind and continue to take steps to reverse the damage that has been done. Despite being presented with plenty of evidence to the contrary (which has been presented to you multiple times) I anticipate you will deny the have taken any corrective action but can we at least agree they have said they no longer plan to implement self ID?

What does it tell us about other political parties and their attitudes to women when they remain committed to self ID despite the shit show of the trial run whilst the Tories have been in power? They must really hate us, right?

I this because I was tired of people posting the lie that "at least the Tories know what a woman is". I read it on another thread and thought it would be helpful to give it a thread of its own to clear up some common misconceptions on the issue.

Whatever government was in power had to address this as most other progressive countries have in recent years

true and the high watermark will depend on when each country decides to reverse the trend

For goodness sake, you've been trying to misrepresent the arguments women have been making for ages. The Tories are not planning to introduce self ID, for many of us that matters.

Are you prepared to answer the question at the end of my last post? You seem to shy away from answering the difficult questions.

As per the AG’s speech today, they do know this.

It’s quite bizarre that you are just blithely pretending that you don’t understand this on a day that a shadow cabinet member made a very public visit to support Mermaids.

Yeah, women are a niche issue. FFS 🤦🏻‍♀️

As an aside, no one has been “banging on for years” that at least the Tories know what a woman is. That became a “thing” a few months ago. And thank fuck it became a thing, because no other party seems willing to stand up and say it - in fact may even be saying along the lines of “we don’t want your vote if you don’t agree with our bullshit”.

The Tories already introduced Self ID. It was disastrous for women's rights. I hope they won't bring it back, but have no doubt they would if it suited them.

They're throwing crumbs and we're all supposed to be grateful? Fuck that. Anyway I've learnt not to believe a thing the Tories say.

The self-ID policy was put forward by a select committee made up of people of different political parties. At that time all political parties thought it was an easy way to score LGBT brownie points. There was little consideration of the impact on women or anyone else.

When Women’s Place UK and Fair Play for Women began to raise concerns about the potential impact of self-ID on women, the Tories were the only major party to have a rethink on the issue, which I think is how politics should work. Their reasons may not be entirely pure but sometimes you have to take what you can get.

There is great dishonesty in Labour about this issue. I don’t think there is a vast difference between the genuine beliefs of senior labour and conservative MPs but Labour are terrified of losing their fervent campaigners if they start to speak sense on this.

But you're worried enough to be trivialising it on here. We get people on here a lot who tell us why we're stupid for being concerned about a non issue and should drop it, but strangely won't drop it themselves.

COL crisis will disproportionately affect women since overall they earn less and are more likely to be sole or main/resident carers. But we're not supposed to be concerned about having that huge demographically trait obfuscated and erased?

Not that you need that excuse. Before COL, you lot always had some form of whataboutery and if COL got entirely solved tomorrow you'd find something else. The only constant is that it's always women who should just roll over and cede the fight along with their rights and very existence. It's only unimportant where they're concerned.

If it's true that nobody gives a toss in real life, why waste your energy on it here? Just let us spend ourselves and our energy pointlessly. That's what I'd do if I saw my enemies carrying out a supreme own goal....

I don't trust the Tories but Labour's job is literally to criticise and point out the problems in everything they do. There are exceptions but a massive fucking women's rights issue that has women protesting and losing opportunities and being threatened and intimidated, not to mention clinics putting children straight on untested drugs with no alternatives explored while they finish growing up, shouldn't be one of them. So I don't trust them either.

I'll never vote Tory but at least they're showing more signs of realising it was a mistake than the fucking gatekeepers. I don't care if it's a vote winner or genuine act of protection, as long as it's the right thing.

Self-ID only became a focus because Gender Recognition Certificates exist. Gender Recognition Certificates exist because in 2004, the UK was held to account by the European Court of Human Rights for (among other things) refusing to let male-born Christine Goodwin marry a male partner. The Labour Government of the day couldn't bring themselves to legalise same sex marriage, so instead they wasted two years cobbling together a badly-constructed piece of legislation that satisfied no one and whipping their MPs to vote for it. There's plenty of blame to go around.

I am gutted for any GC/feminist voters who held their nose and voted Conservative only to end up with Jamie Wallace.

I'm not a fan of Jamie Wallace because I don't like his politics and have issues with his (allegedly) leaving the scene of an accident. I'm not sure why his being trans, rather than his policies and behaviour, would make someone regret voting for him.