Are you a feminist, if yes, what does it mean to you?

[YouAreNotBatman]

YANBU = I’m am
YABU = I am not

But most women have left. The men can't do that.

but as pp pointed out, they have left with their children. Plenty of women without children have remained and are fighting (and some women have sent their women off with family members and stayed to fight, keep the country running, etc)

And why is it that men have to stay to fight? Because historically female bodies have precluded women from serving their country on the frontlines, even though there have always been aspects of warfare (esp modern warfare) that don't rely on the brute strength that men have more than women generally.

I went into the Army many years ago. I actually wanted to join the navy because i preferred the uniform, the job i wanted to do was more to my taste (although all 3 services offered similar). But nope. Because in 1984 women weren't allowed on ships and that job was only done on ships. It wasn't even about "best person for the job" because when i went into the Army, the job had plenty of women, nearly 50/50 in fact. (and yes, some of it was because the Navy wouldn't have us). There was no part of that job that a man could do better just because his reproductive organs are on the outside.

Back to the topic: I'm a feminist because i believe in equality of opportunity. Which is why I'm a socialist (closer to communist but that's a big scary word for too many people). Women's struggles, and the class struggle is real.

I'm not really following you. Your life experiences are of course unique. They also have some commonalities with other women that they don't have with any male, regardless of how they identify. I think we need to consider that commonality as important. You were born female and that is a prerequisite for becoming a woman at adulthood.

You can't use the word woman to define woman. That's not how definitions work.

This.

Calling women birth givers or period havers is a marvellous goal to aim for I think.

I would love to live in a society where sex is so meaningless it is only relevent in terms of our bodily functions and those bodily functions are so mundane and meaningless for outcomes there really is no need to specify women.

How lovely.

That isn't what the aim seems to be though.

Yes, but not all of "who you are as a person" is relevant to the fact that you are a woman.

Who I am as a person includes:

• being female
• being adult
• being a mother
• being married
• speaking two languages
• living in a country other than the one I am from
• sometimes wearing makeup, sometimes not
• being a runner
• being more of a cat person than a dog person
• being a Pisces
• liking Bruce Springsteen
• sometimes wearing dresses, sometimes not
• having watched all of Grey's Anatomy three times
• being a keen baker

Only the first three things on that list have anything to do with me being a woman.

So I am interested to know how you define being a woman, other than being adult, human and female, and what you think those other things actually have to do with being a woman as opposed to just a person.

Because "women" is the collective term for a group of people making up around half the human population. It isn't an individual feeling which is personal to you. It defines you in relation to other people. And if the group of people you are calling "women" have literally not one single thing in common, it isn't actually a group of people that exists or which we need a word for, much less its own sporting categories, prisons or toilets.

"Female people" is a group of people which actually exists and which we need a word for.

Great. You define yourself however you want. Feminists will work to ensure all females have rights and protections based not on people’s feelings. But on the discrimination that happens because of the female body type, not because you have a ‘personality’ which every person has one of there own.

I think being 'a feminist' doesn't mean what it used to in many cases. Many feminists nowadays seem to be pretty toxic people IME and not just interested in women's rights. I don't like using the label anymore and would rather just support the causes I believe in for both sexes.

Being a feminist means supporting women, not ‘both sexes’. What causes do you believe in?

So it's not about equality. Exactly my point.

If feminism was about supporting men as well as women, it wouldn't be feminism. The point of feminism is that it centres women. It's really not hard to understand.

Being a feminist was always about females. And radical feminism still is.

being described as toxic bitter or frigid usually means we got feminism right

Badges of honour. 😊

No, it’s not about treating everyone the same. It’s about fair treatment for women only. It’s not hard to understand.

Transwomen are not actual women

I personally known 1 transwomen , 1 makes his mind up on the day depending if he wants to go kick boxing or wear a dress , and 1 transman

Every time someone says transwomen are women they are excluding me from their feminism despite be being female because they are making women to mean something other than adult human female - and there is no definition of women other than adult human female that fits me

As opposed to the vile anti trans rhetoric that is prevalent on MN.

What specifically are you talking about here? What I see are people fighting for the sex based rights of women and girls. Care to explain why you don't think that should be a priority?

One of the things it means to me is recognising that trans women are actual women

They aren't biological women though, are they?

What is this other definition of women that you're using that you think trumps biology in importance?

Their definition doesn't trump biology

It's based on biology - on the assumption that men are right and better than women and their saying something must be true

@NannyOggsWhiskyStash
Many of us do personally know Transpeople - and many of us have listened really really carefully to what Transpeople have said.

It's why I don't want my daughter sharing an intimate space with a 50 year old narcissistic man who has a fetish for women's clothing.

I have never come across this at any time, I only hear about this on MN or the Daily Mail. I very much doubt that the majority of transwomen are just narcissistic men getting off on wearing a dress and watching women get changed.

I very much doubt that the majority of transwomen are just narcissistic men getting off on wearing a dress and watching women get changed.

Of course that's true.

But it's not really the point however.

Eroding same sex spaces opens women and girls to these situations from the small minority who do this. And it has already happened, so it's not like anyone can argue it's a never event.

And it's not just about TW who want to cause harm. I have a friend who was violently raped and struggles with the presence of men generally. She would be terribly triggered by a male body in a space where she's getting changed, no matter how well meaning male person is. Do people like her not matter in this debate?

My experience

1 transwomen lovely person who would never expect to be in the womens changing room. On her transition work managed to create a standalone gender neutral loo for her.

1 transman for whom I feel such grief. Their parents were so rigid in their understanding of gender , then there was major trauma in the child's early teens, autism I suspect ..:

1 transwomen sometimes who I don't trust an inch to be a decent human being

There is no evidence that transwomen commit sexual offences at a rate differently to men - therefore any space where men might be excluded should exclude transwomen.

Arguing with biology deniers about the definition of women is like arguing with climate deniers or flat earthers.

Men are not women. It doesn't matter whether they like wearing pink underwear. It doesn't matter whether they have gender dysphoria. It doesn't matter if you dye your hair blue and wave rainbow flags and shout that Transwomen are women.

Men are not women.

To somehow insist they are is delusional at best and dangerous at worst.

Unfortunately the biology deniers have been given free reign by various media outlets, politicians and celebrities who thinking they are being "kind" have created the damaging culture whereby vulnerable children have now had body parts removed and are on a lifetime of medication. Where women in prisons and on hospital wards are being assaulted by MEN who say they are women.

This is not kind.

Biology deniers still keep going in the face of this abuse - still chanting their mantras. You better start thinking up excuses now as to why you cheered on the sterilisation of children in the name of "kindness" - because public opinion has changed, the lies are exposed and the lawsuits are about to hit hard.

Biology deniers are not feminists. They do not care about the safety of women or children and are perfectly happy to allow the whims and perversions of one group of men to override the safety of other more vulnerable people.

Sickening.

Yip