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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Are you a feminist, if yes, what does it mean to you?

1000 replies

YouAreNotBatman · 03/08/2022 15:07

YANBU = I’m am
YABU = I am not

OP posts:
OfficiallyBroken · 03/08/2022 15:41

Feminism for me is equity, which means acknowledging the biological difference between women and men then taking steps to even the playing field. We are the physically more vulnerable sex, accepting this and making the right provisions in law and in practice is the only way that equity can be achieved.

The discrimination faced by others cannot be improved by increasing the obstacles women have to achieve equity...including safe single sex spaces whether that's because you've committed a crime or fancy going for a swim and wanting the appropriate level of privacy to do so.

For what it's worth, I want to see equity across the board. Too many people lose out because they don't have the financial privilege to enter the field they'd excel in (and benefit society), or are disabled so literally can't get through the front door, or are institutionally excluded because of their skin colour or religious belief or a pilloried for daring to want a same sex relationship.

IMO equality doesn't level the playing field - it just invites women to do things on men's terms and against the parameters set for and by men.

KohlaParasaurus · 03/08/2022 15:46

For me it means passing absolutely everything through a filter of, "What does this mean for women?" and constantly being vigilant for internalised misogyny. And not having to like a woman personally to be on her side.

NalaNana · 03/08/2022 15:49

For me it's financial, political and societal equality. Controversial topic but in most circumstances I believe "women" should be taken to mean biological women, and those who identify as women and live the experience of a woman.

I recognise that sex and gender are different things and there are some circumstances where biological sex is more important than gender i.e women's shelters, boxing etc. Safety of both women and trans people should be the most important factor where relevant, with comfort being the secondary factor.

I feel sadness for trans women as often (especially on here) they seem to be demonised as some kind of threat to women when they are so marginalised and at risk themselves. Some don't seem to accept that sex and gender are different things and it's possible to be biologically male but female gendered.

I struggle with the conflict within feminism i.e women should be able to do what they want with their bodies (legal sex work, grid girls etc) vs the cumulative impact this can have on how women are seen by society.

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 03/08/2022 15:52

SpiderVersed · 03/08/2022 15:25

To me it means fighting to change society until women and their rights are truly on a par with men - in work, at home, in society, in healthcare, in all aspects.

I think CCP’s Invisible Women was great at highlighting some of the many ways society ignores female people.

It also means standing with our sisters who are suffering because of their sex, like in Afghanistan. Feminism is about supporting all female people, even ones we disagree with. I included transmen and non-binary female people in my feminism because it is a movement for our sex, not gender.

I tried to word my reply but this articulates my thoughts better than I can.

Feminism centres women and only women (the vagina kind). All colours, all races all demographics. Even the women we find objectionable and may not agree with. But ONLY women

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/08/2022 15:54

YANBU

Nice to see that biological males get a mention in a thread about women's rights straight away.

Tinktravels · 03/08/2022 15:55

Choice.

I don't have to stay at home and be a housewife.

I chose to, and you shouldn't put people up of down based on their choice.

babyjellyfish · 03/08/2022 15:55

Some don't seem to accept that sex and gender are different things and it's possible to be biologically male but female gendered.

What does female gendered mean?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/08/2022 15:55

babyjellyfish · 03/08/2022 15:36

Personally I don't see how the belief that trans women are women, trans men are men and non binary people are neither men nor women is compatible with being a feminist.

The whole concept of gender identity depends on defining men and women as genders, rather than biological sex categories. For me as a feminist, that is really problematic. I have yet to see a definition of gender which isn't based in the very regressive stereotypes feminists are supposed to be fighting against. I don't see how it is possible to accept the legitimacy of gender at the same time as being a feminist.

I agree.

AlisonDonut · 03/08/2022 15:56

For me, it means asking 'who wins here' and most of the time, it isn't women.

And by women I mean the old fashioned ones.

I'd like for women to start actually winning at some point. Not just have to stand by and watch everything being taken away and the taking away celebrated by every institution and organisation under this sun.

jalapenita · 03/08/2022 15:56

Yes. Equal opportunities and rights for all

NalaNana · 03/08/2022 15:59

babyjellyfish · 03/08/2022 15:55

Some don't seem to accept that sex and gender are different things and it's possible to be biologically male but female gendered.

What does female gendered mean?

Someone who was born male but believes they are female, identifies as female, appears as female, lives their life as a female etc

Did you really not understand that or were you being facetious?

AlisonDonut · 03/08/2022 16:00

NalaNana · 03/08/2022 15:59

Someone who was born male but believes they are female, identifies as female, appears as female, lives their life as a female etc

Did you really not understand that or were you being facetious?

What does 'live as a female' even mean?

tobee · 03/08/2022 16:02

Biological reality. Belief doesn't come into it.

babyjellyfish · 03/08/2022 16:02

NalaNana · 03/08/2022 15:59

Someone who was born male but believes they are female, identifies as female, appears as female, lives their life as a female etc

Did you really not understand that or were you being facetious?

I'm not being facetious.

Female means the childbearing sex. It means being born with a female reproductive system and not a male one. It almost always means having an XX genetic karyotype, although most people never have their karyotype checked because, "Were you born with a vagina and not a penis? Yes? Then you're female." is all we really need to know, 99.99% of the time.

So what are male people, who have male reproductive systems and Y chromosomes, identifying with?

How on earth do you identify as female if you are the literal opposite of female?

picklemewalnuts · 03/08/2022 16:04

It's the rebuilding of society to reflect the value of women as well as men. We need to examine statistics to understand where inequity is entrenched.
It's a rejection of gender stereotypes in the best interests of men and women.

I believe all this will result in a better life for both women and men, and should be vigorously pursued. I don't see it as in anyway detrimental to men.

All the above based on sex. Race, disability, health inequities should all be given similar attention.
I see sexism as the bigger issue as it's disadvantaging 50% of the population- the women in the other groups will/must be advantaged by feminism as well.

NalaNana · 03/08/2022 16:05

@babyjellyfish what you are describing is sex rather than gender but I think you already know that.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 03/08/2022 16:05

As Rebecca West put it “I only know that people call me a feminist when I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat or a prostitute”

feminism is also recognising that women are not a costume for men to put on or a feeling in a man’s head

MaChienEstUnDick · 03/08/2022 16:05

As a feminist, I believe in the liberation of the female sex class from the shackles of patriarchy and toxic masculinity.

As a practical feminist, I accept that the patriarchy probably won't be overthrown in my lifetime, so I centre my activism and energy on women and the fight to end violence against women and girls in all its forms.

As a mother of a boy, I believe that feminism is the antidote to toxic masculinity and therefore Good For Everyone.

As a fairly laid-back live and let live gender critical feminist, I believe that women's rights and trans rights can mostly co-exist fairly happily, but where there is a conflict of rights women should come first.

And as a sensible woman of the cunty kind, I don't believe that Twitter reflects the state of the world.

minipie · 03/08/2022 16:06

The whole concept of gender identity depends on defining men and women as genders, rather than biological sex categories. For me as a feminist, that is really problematic. I have yet to see a definition of gender which isn't based in the very regressive stereotypes feminists are supposed to be fighting against

Completely agree.

babyjellyfish · 03/08/2022 16:08

NalaNana · 03/08/2022 16:05

@babyjellyfish what you are describing is sex rather than gender but I think you already know that.

Can you describe the female gender for us then please?

TheOGCCL · 03/08/2022 16:08

For me it's about understanding how sexist our society still is and that until this changes generations of women are being disadvantaged. It's about challenging gender stereotypes and not playing along with sexist or stereotyped conventions such as weddings (where all the men speak and not the bride), gender reveals and expecting different things of boys and girls.

Fairislefandango · 03/08/2022 16:10

Some don't seem to accept that sex and gender are different things and it's possible to be biologically male but female gendered.

What does 'female gendered' mean though? I have yet to see a definition of gender identity which means anything beyond a combination of sex-based stereotypes and simply personality traits, none of which actually reliably correspond to one sex or the other, so how can they possibly determine what 'gender' you are?

ReeseWitherfork · 03/08/2022 16:10

Equity between men and women. For me its
more than “women’s rights” but rather that women be both considered fairly and treated fairly. Things like having male bias removed from medical trials.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/08/2022 16:11

Some don't seem to accept that sex and gender are different things and it's possible to be biologically male but female gendered.

If I believed it was true that was possible
, I'd accept it. But I don't, and moreover think it's a harmful belief, so that's rather a sticking point for me I'm afraid.

NalaNana · 03/08/2022 16:13

@babyjellyfish if you are so far down the rabbit hole that you not only don't subscribe to the concept of gender, but don't recognise it's existence (or pretend not to), there's nothing I can say here to help you out.

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