Are you a feminist, if yes, what does it mean to you?

[YouAreNotBatman]

YANBU = I’m am
YABU = I am not

The sad thing is that's exactly what people say eg the trope of the angry black woman... vom.

@Cw122 Oh, I would feel it better to offer trans men the option of a female group in the circumstance of rape. I suppose I feel trans men would have more in common or be more comfortable amongst women if that happened to them. I actually don't know, but it seems right to me that should be an option. Still, I don't know if other females would find that triggering.

Shame that a thread about feminism has become dominated by trans issues.

I am a rape survivor and I personally wouldn't find it at all triggering if I was told the person was female, or it was obvious they were. I don't want males in any female-only therapeutic space. There are female only therapeutic spaces for a reason.

Shame that a thread about feminism has become dominated by trans issues.

Maybe that's a comment better directed to the second poster on this thread.

Apologies @AgnestaVipers I see you did!

Which is why the ‘what does living like a woman mean?’ posts are such a waste of time.

No they aren't, because a male wearing a dress isn't actually living as a woman.

@Ereshkigalangcleg I am so sorry that happened to you. Thank you for replying.

I am a feminist and I support all those who identify as women to be treated with respect and equal to those who identify as men in society 👊

Apologies, I missed this. I agree with all of it, but I would add that not acknowledging gender stereotypes as innate in society means this whole discussion just becomes point scoring.

So is being a woman down to feelings, how society perceives you or wearing makeup and dresses? We've had three different answers on this thread from posters that believe TWAW. Which is it that makes a woman?

No, but that’s still what it means.

I am a feminist and I support all those who identify as women to be treated with respect and equal to those who identify as men in society

It's a bit phobic to leave out non binaries, 2 spirit, gender fluid and null gender people.

I take your point, but typically in these discussions people analyse the data using the wider classes of 'male' and 'female'.

If we were to start digging into the demographics, then the typical white middle class mumsnet feminist who harps on about female murders would have to acknowledge that they themselves are probably not in the demographic that need to be most concerned (although tbf I'm not concerned myself given that well over 99.9% of women don't get murdered).

If I remember rightly, most homicide victims are in the 16-24 age range and black people are 5x more likely to be murdered when accounting for different population sizes. Of course, these figures are possibly for homicide victims as a whole (i.e. vast majority male) rather than specifically women, but I still reckon that socioeconomic factors and substance/alcohol issues are likely big predictors.

Either way, I think if you analysed female homicides using the same methodology you'd likely find that the average mumsnet member is extremely unlikely to ever be a victim.

If we were to start digging into the demographics, then the typical white middle class mumsnet feminist who harps on about female murders would have to acknowledge that they themselves are probably not in the demographic that need to be most concerned (although tbf I'm not concerned myself given that well over 99.9% of women don't get murdered).

If you accuse women of 'harping on about female murders' then you need to accept that you sound like a misogynist even if you don't think you are one because you're a woman.

Men are more likely than women to be murdered.

Men are more likely than women to be a murderer.

When it comes to murder, the number of female victims is hugely disproportionate to the number of female perpetrators.

And two women a week are murdered specifically by male current or former partners. Men and women are roughly 50/50 of the population. Two men a week aren't murdered by their female current or former partners, so there's a colossal disparity that is disproportionate and specific to males harming females.

Wanting to raise awareness of that and campaign for change isnt 'harping on', it's essential for that change to happen.

The rate is the same even with the campaigning done to date and the DV provisions in place to try and reduce the rate, with the aim of course being to eradicate it. Imagine what the rate would be if no women had been 'harping on' about it and fighting for change within the community, by supporting women's rights charities and pushing for reform at a governmental level.

I bet you've never used the phrase 'harping on' about people of colour fighting agains racist murders.

I would like to think so and to me it means that women shouldn't be disadvantaged in any way (by other people) just because they are women.

Are you saying here that white middle-class women are not subjected to domestic violence?

Because if you are, you are saying that white middle-class men do not commit violence against women.

So all the women killed by partners are killed by whom?

Are you saying it's just working class men doing it? Or are you saying it's mostly black men and brown men?

I'd like clarification on this.

Back in the real world, women of all classes are subjected to intimate partner violence, as any long time user of MN knows from the Relationships forum. Although I am beginning to think that Family Annihilators (that's when a man kills his children too) tend to be middle class specifically.

I also pay attention to press reports (the most recent women in my town to be murdered by a partner or spouse were decidedly middle class) and follow the Counting Dead Women twitter account. You should too. You'll learn something.

I'd hope we all support the idea that everyone should be treated with respect and equal to each other.

That's equalism though, not feminism.

Are you saying that trans people are not subject to homicide?

It's all on a sliding scale, and plenty of studies show that socioeconomic factors have a huge influence on the likelihood of experiencing DV, not least because financial dependence makes it harder for victims to leave.

My point is that if we're going to point out that transwomen aren't the men most likely to experience violence, then it's fair to point out that educated middle class women aren't the women most likely to experience it either.

No need to do the typical mumsnet diversion tactic of derailing by asking loads of questions/going off down the rabbithole on a tangent. The main point is that its disingenuous to lump all female victims together whilst singling out certain male groups as being less at risk when it suits your argument to do so.

I don't have an agenda and tbh I'm not particularly interested in discussing this as I find people with victim mentalities a bit tiresome tbh, but I don't really like disingenuity in debates so I usually point it out when I see it.

Are you saying that trans people are not subject to homicide?

In this country? Not very much, no. Far lower rates than either sex class as a whole.

It means being in touch with my feminine energy, being a strong defender of the equal role, rights and abilities of women. It’s about protecting the rights and autonomy of women from attack. It’s about creating and maintaining safe environments for women on physical, intellectual and emotional levels.

it is not about making them the same as men but about them being valued an rewarded equally to men

This.

No, but that’s still what it means.

Well that's what some people want it to mean. It doesn't actually mean anything.

That's a lot of words which all mean "I can't talk about issues that affect women without seguong to trans people.

Are you saying that trans people are not subject to homicide?

Do you have any idea how many trans people have been murdered in the UK in the last 3 years?

I happen to know the number exactly. Do you?