Are you a feminist, if yes, what does it mean to you?

[YouAreNotBatman]

YANBU = I’m am
YABU = I am not

Can a transwoman be a woman if there is no one around to perceive them as being a woman?

If you read their trans only forums on Reddit etc they all start sounding a bit, well matey and male when they get comfortable with each other.

IMO

Sex is biological and cannot be changed - though some physical alterations can make a person look more like another sex

Gender isn't sex. It is how we view ourselves and how others view us and the world around us. Gender doesn't claim to be sex.

I was a feminist in my 20s

Were you, aye.

At the same time with rights come responsibilities and I believe that both men and women MUST take responsibilities that come with rights. Again that shouldn't be controversial.

@Burgoo - do you think that because women are the only sex that can gestate and bear children, might impact on any of the issues you’ve raised?

Its about what they feel they are, regardless of who is around to witness it. That's from what I gather

But previous posters are trying to tell us that being a woman is all about how others/ society perceives you, not about how they feel?

I'd agree with you @Burgoo if men had the exact same bodily risks from pregnancy, were able to

Oh Lord I can't be arsed. Figure it out yourself. There's a reason childbearing women were enslaved in Handmais's tale.

If a man falls over in woods and nobody is there to see, does he fall over in the woods?

Of course, because there was an actual event that happened to him. Falling over doesn't depend on someone being around to witness it.

But this is one of the things feminism is supposed to fight against, and one of the reasons why I believe gender ideology is an existential threat to feminism.

Society is literally teaching the next generations of young women to believe that what makes someone a woman is feminine stereotypes, and that their rights and needs are subordinate to those of male people. That they don't have the right to say no to penises in their communal showers, rape therapy groups and sporting categories.

This is precisely why it is incompatible with being a feminist.

Not at all for me whether someone 'passes' or not shouldn't matter a jot. Those are just two examples of where I think tw fit within feminism because of the overlap with the issues they experience. In terms of the toiletries example I know plenty of women choose not to use items targeted at women because they're more expensive and sometimes worse quality as well but the fact its marketed that way towards women is oppressive in itself. For me it's about the daily privilege that men live with that women don't and a lot of tw are also affected by that whether it be beauty stereotypes, childcare issues, being over looked in the workplace etc etc I don't think that non trans men have those same experiences. But I believe that tw do following transition and I don't believe that it's just because they are trans. As for what you personally identify with I can't really say because I don't know you but I feel like all those issues affect us all in some way but not men.

Well you won't have to have an opinion as they are zero threat to you.

@Burgoo I don't believe men can be feminists, allies at best. It's a movement derived from women's lived experience, with which the best of men can only empathise.

Again, I don’t agree with the legitimacy of gender stereotypes. But again, it’s ridiculous to pretend they don’t exist. Which is why the ‘what does living like a woman mean?’ posts are such a waste of time.

@Burgoo not that you’ll be back but I don’t think any feminist theory talks about equality meaning ‘exactly the same’.

I wouldn't say I'm a feminist, I am a humanist. I believe ALL people should be treated with the same respect, decency and value regardless of any characteristic.

That's what feminism is by definition.

Believing women and men should be treated with the same respect, decency and value.

At the same time with rights come responsibilities and I believe that both men and women MUST take responsibilities that come with rights.

If you say you aren't a feminist and follow with this as a reason, you must believe women don't do so. Could you give some examples of rights that women don't accept the responsibilities for?

By the way @Burgoo, 'hysterical' is a heavily gendered word used for centuries to dismiss women expressing themselves in a way deemed to be 'too much' whether anger or sadness.

You might not be aware of how problematic the word is so just wanted to let you know before you use it again here or elsewhere.

I did say in my post that its the responsibility of tw to educate themselves on womens issues... I also think it's the responsibility of feminists to educate themselves on the issues tw face but if noone steps forward to partake in open honest dialogue in a respectful way then everyone stays at a stalemate. And that's not to say its an obligation it's a choice as I stated earlier and should be recognised and compensated as such. I think Rachel Dolazel is a very different thing though... although I think it's an example of white women stepping on the backs of women of colour for their own gain. I don't personally believe that trans people 'fake' being trans I believe it is their true identity and if they are unable to live as such life becomes unlivable. That's not the case with what happened with Dolazel.

Yup this. Also @Burgoo you said you were a feminist until shouty people took over. Would those shouty people be women who were fed up of being persecuted on the daily? Because its not their job to filter their message and gift wrap it nicely for you to hear it. It's your job to sit with your discomfort and decipher the message.

At the same time with rights come responsibilities and I believe that both men and women MUST take responsibilities that come with rights.

If you say you aren't a feminist and follow with this as a reason, you must believe women don't do so. Could you give some examples of rights that women don't accept the responsibilities for?

I am guessing @Burgoo means, for example, that women should be enlisted in the event of war on the same basis as men.

I think he also assumes babies and children are fine to raise and educate themselves, while women and men go off to fight the good fight.

I think Rachel Dolazel is a very different thing though... although I think it's an example of white women stepping on the backs of women of colour for their own gain.

That's a good way of phrasing my argument actually so thanks:

Male bodied people demanding access to single sex spaces currently for female bodied people are stepping on the backs of women who fought hard for specifically single sex spaces due to the threat of male bodied people.

Thank you for saving the rest of us the time of typing that out

Also Burgoo you said you were a feminist until shouty people took over. Would those shouty people be women who were fed up of being persecuted on the daily?

It's mad isn't it?!

What's next, if black people fight loudly against racism, would he say:

"I was anti racism until those 'shouty people' took over. Now I won't call myself anti racist."

Bet he wouldn't dare say that!

Oh and @Burgoo - just so you know - you are very transparent.

We see you.

My worry with the 'people who menstruate' and other similar phrases is that it muddies the water of the real issue - equality for women - which immediately becomes impossible for us to unify behind and fight - because suddenly noone can agree on what a woman even is. That to me is dangerous and has hijacked the concept and the fight completely because we now can no longer even get past that.

😂

Women as a class have long been oppressed and are still disadvantaged and demeaned even in the UK today. I want that to stop.

To me, a job well done would be to know that every girl regardless of skin colour or socio-economic background could access the tools and information she needed to live a fulfilling and healthy life. This would start with lessons in school telling her the power of the word 'no'.

I think a possible solution is more partnership working amongst providers and the sharing of training and resources to provide accessible spaces without as you say diluting what we already have. I think it could be triggering having transmales in womens support groups I'm even thinking simple things like smelling a certain type of aftershave could trigger a visceral ptsd response for someone in that group which is one of the reasons why they need to stay separate. But having staff who are trans and who are trained by both services could create a really good alternative that doesn't leave transpeople feeling they are receiving a lesser service and where women still feel safe.