Are you a feminist, if yes, what does it mean to you?

[YouAreNotBatman]

YANBU = I’m am
YABU = I am not

I've already said a few times that there of course will need to be some protected spaces for women but I see no reason why there can't be a transwomen accessible version that is also offered so both needs are met then people are able to choose to engage with what they as an individual feel most comfortable with that meets their needs.

and

And as I said earlier I get the need for protected spaces but we can still provide service and support for transwomen that runs parallel to that without denying them completely.

So, to clarify Cw122, do you support the need that females have single sex provisions and that transitioned males are excluded from those, but are offered accommodations that suits their needs? ie. Third spaces? But that females will have single sex provisions.

Because, this is something that feminists have been proposing and have had rejected. But I am sure that you know this.

Because for me by my own personal definition trans women are women and we can agree to disagree on that but that's where I personally stand.

What is that definition though?

Agreeing to disagree only works if everyone totally understands each other's position.

You don't need to deny your identity as a TW in a male space. You just have to understand that the space allocation is nothing to do with identity and everything to do with biology. I find it offensive that you appear to imply that I have a commonality of identity with other women just because we're female. I am an individual and don't want my identity boxed in so please stop trying to.

the laws that protect trans rights (in uk)

No, the laws that protect trans rights in the uk don't say that trans people have to be accepted as the sex they say they are. Trans people do have rights based on gender reassignment, but - with some exceptions which are still being argued over - their sex remains the same and their sex-based rights remain the original ones.

There has been misrepresentation of the law - wishful thinking with the deliberate intent of changing the law - from organisations which have been paid for training or consultancy in "diveristy and inclusion". As a result, various "guidelines" have been put in place which do give rights based solely on gender identity (such as the right to be in an NHS single-sex ward) which conflict with women's sex-based rights and have yet to be legally challenged under the Equalities Act.

Not being facetious but what on earth is living your life as female. For me it's having periods, menopause, failed and judged attempts at breastfeeding. Stuff a male can never do. Also are you saying that those swathes of TW who are clearly male are not female gendered?

Or have a transwomens support worker attached to dv charities. Or protected safe houses in the community for tw experiencing dv. None of that encroaches on protected spaces and they'd stay the same but it widens provision to make it accessible.

Right... so do you think it would be sufficient for a rape support charity to offer individual counselling to trans people, and a group in which trans people can support each other? Alongside similar separate single-sex services, which trans people are welcome to join according to their birth sex?

Or is that transphobic?

What is actually rude, is do-gooders who give away sex based rights of women and girls whilst working with vulnerable people and not being willing to risk assess males the way males should be risk assessed.

The amount of people on here who tell us they work in education or hostels or domestic violence or rape centres etc etc who have just handed the keys over to males without even having the decency to find out what is actually going on astounds me.

Again fascinating how women have to just shove over for men. Every time.

You don't need to deny your identity as a TW in a male space. You just have to understand that the space allocation is nothing to do with identity and everything to do with biology.

100% this, but of course TW won't have that because they want the validation of being in women's spaces and services, all about them and their wants, nothing about women and their needs let alone wants.

Actual women, eh?

So transwomen require the same health needs as women, do they? Cervical smears for example? Their heart attack symptoms are the same as women and require the same treatment? They are okay to have a blood transfusion using blood from a woman who has been pregnant? They are liable to ovarian cancer, are they? They require maternity services and maternity provision at work?

Stop talking risible nonsense.

To add to that ^^ transwomen have to deal with periods every month for 30+ years, and/or deal with contraception for 30+ years?

What I've had to do is actually turn trans women away knowing that they will be more at risk due to sleeping rough because there is no safe alternative for them. That is what I've had to do in my job and morally that didn't sit right with me. I've had to sit with them in a state of absolute distress and need and been completely unable to find anyone that was able or willing to help them. So don't accuse me of handing away the keys when you don't know me or my professional background. I work within robust risk assessing measures. I now work in a trans accessible environment and risk assessing is a huge part of my job and is on an individual basis depending on the person regardless of their gender.

Not if its done well and in a way that recognises the nuance of the transfemale experience and additional barriers and boundaries of that experience while still recognising them as women.

Sex.

Not gender.

So you should turn males away if you are working in a female specific service. That's the law.

Not if its done well and in a way that recognises the nuance of the transfemale experience and additional barriers and boundaries of that experience while still recognising them as women.

I don't think I know what you mean. Transwomen wouldn't be allowed to join the female-only group but would have a separate group. Is that OK? Or does that fail to recognise the transwomen as women?

My definition of a woman is as @NalaNana originally stated. And I find it weird that you would list those experiences specifically as what makes you female as there are cis gendered women who don't have those experiences either. For me it's someone who identifies as female, lives as female and is more vulnerable in society due to being female. If transwomen were living as men they wouldn't be as vulnerable as they are so for me their being female is what makes them vulnerable therefore that fits within my personal definition of feminism- feel free to disagree but that's where I personally stand. I also don't think medical needs can be cited as what makes the difference because there are differences in health needs between cis gendered women as well, you just need to look at the medical discrimination women of colour face to see that. So for me it needs to be something broader that includes all women and that for me includes trans women because they are living their life as women and identify as such. I understand some people see it differently but that's my standpoint.

Will you please stop misgendering women? Most are not cis. Its disrespectful and hypocritical to call call that. Feel free to define women in way which better defines women. Because we need an actual definition. It can't be someone who identifies as a woman as any circular definition is not a definition. Again, what is living as a woman? I literally have no clue as to what you mean

I think sometimes services need to recognise that equity is important. To me the best way to do something like that would be to employ a transfemale worker who provides support specific to the needs of transwomen under the umbrella of women's charity or community provision. I think that because you are therefore recognising their identity as women, but also recognising that transwomen also deserve safe spaces where they can be supported by someone with similar lived experience and where they are protected from transphobia which could happen in a mixed group or where some cis women wouldn't feel comfortable attending otherwise. For example when I run residentials our trans youth have separate sleeping arrangements because they had certain needs that couldn't be met in a space shared with cis youth. It doesn't deny their identity but it provides an equitable alternative and an accessible service.

For me it's someone who identifies as female, lives as female and is more vulnerable in society due to being female.

What you should say here is that you believe trans woman is more vulnerable in society (compared to men) due to being a trans female.

The trans woman experience is specific to being a trans woman.

The female experience is specific to being a woman.

Trans women aren't more vulnerable in society due to being 'female' because they are not female.

You personally call them women. That doesn't make it correct. It is a belief, not a fact. We have been told time and time again that the word 'women' (without a qualifier or subcategory) should apply to trans women as well as natal women.

Meanwhile, women are told they are 'cis women' and if we find that offensive as we are just 'women', we are called transphobic.

You fully well know that trans women are not females. You choose to say you believe they are women just as much as a natal woman, but even you must surely acknowledge that they are not female.

Are we allowed to have that word (female) or do we need to share it too?

Genuine response, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by saying the majority are not cis would you explain that to me? I'm always open to learning.

"You fully well know that trans women are not females. You choose to say you believe they are women just as much as a natal woman, but even you must surely acknowledge that they are not female." This is where we will agree to disagree. You're fully entitled to your opinion and I'll support your right to it all day long, but i respectfully disagree with you. For me trans women are women.

I don't have a gender identity. Lots of other people who've posted here also don't. Cis means ypu identity as a woman. It's not just 'not trans'. Most people don't internalise stereotypes enough to identity as a woman.to call me cis is to state my identity for me. It's misgendering

I'm open to learning too. What's living as a woman?

Have you seen each individual child you're calling cis whether that's how identify? If not, have some respect and stop.speaking for them

Living as a woman just means wearing dresses and makeup, and presenting as feminine. This thread is the usual trans garbage over and over again.

For me it means equality and supporting the rights of BIOLOGICAL women. That doesn't mean I think trans people should be discriminated against, but to me that's nothing to do with feminism which is about the rights of women. As far as I'm concerned trans women are not women.