Bohemian, "lefty" free range middle class parenting really just lazy neglectful parenting jazzed up?

[Naturelover5]

In my three dc's classes we have some of these bohemian, creative lefty parents.. The children are unkempt, scruffy, hair undone & dressed without fail in mismatched clothes... Some of the children have very questionable manners & are either running amock or with their heads glued to screens constantly (as seen on holiday recently, loud obnoxious parents quaffing seccy while the kids were largely ignored).. If council estate kids were dirty, scruffy & looked uncared for social services would be called.. For this particular group (& they are everywhere) the barefoot, scruffy kids are seen as badges of honour..
The lefty parent types are also very anti homework & organised activities outside school as they think kids should be kids however aibu to think they are just lazy & couldn't be arsed putting the effort in?!

I agree this thread has turned a bit bizarre and seems to mostly come down to different aesthetic preferences with regards to clothes. Who gives a shit?

Kids wearing double denim, unmatching separates, lose fitting hand me downs is not 'neglectful parenting' and I can only imagine my social worker friend dying laughing reading some of this.

But even a little baggy is totally fine. Roll the jeans or cuffs up, they’ll grow into baggy clothes. It’s not the end of the world.

OP might - might - have a had a point about bad manners and some aspects of neglectful parenting disguised as “bohemian”. But they lost all credibility with their examples.

My kids run around barefoot all summer in the park, climbing trees and playing in dirt, wading through streams and building dams and stuff. A wonderful childhood filled with exploration and play. Why would I dress them in brand new clothes that must never get dirty, focus on them looking presentable by making sure their clothes “match” and limit their play when I actively want them to tear around in nature, having the time of their lives doing exactly what they should be doing?

OP has conflated those things with also neglectful parenting when in fact, the two things can exist completely independently.

Tear around at the expense of others who want to enjoy nature? This is exactly the selfishness I'm highlighting.. My dc also enjoy nature but have the decency & common courtesy not to ruin other families experience by "tearing" around..

You sound a lot like my mum OP. My siblings and I often talk about how miserable she made our childhoods with her aspirational values and snobby judgements. We had to go out in what she chose- matching, perfectly ironed outfits that we all about communicating her status and superiority.

And the house she kept spotless by endlessly harassing us to help her clean and tidy. Nothing could be out of place ever.

Frankly I am not surprised that we all rebelled in out adulthood. She is of course disgusted that we allow our kids to choose their own clothes (that often don’t match) and don’t iron all our clothes and don’t vacuum every day.

But then she is a massively controlling snob with a huge chip on her shoulder about coming from a working class background. I find these people are always the most judgmental.

I agree with this completely. It has essentially turned into a middle class parenting thread bashing children appearing anything other than chronically middle class and parents upholding chronically middle class, well behaved ideals.

My three have the time of their lives outside but they know not to invade other peoples spaces, keep the volume down, they wear their shoes in the park @GorgeousLadyofWrestling as the bohemian types that frequent our park keep their free range dogs off the leash w
& turn a blind eye when they poop where they want giving us responsible dog owners a bad name & calls for the park to ban all dogs ... (I digress that's a thread for another day)

Mine are scruffy and not particularly clean, but thoughtful and polite

I am probably lower middle class, fairly left wing but perhaps tend towards the socially conservative - so your theory checks out!

What on earth are you talking about? You’re making a massive judgement here. You’ve absolutely no idea about the setting I’m talking about. I live in south London near a HUGE green space. 237 acres of green space. All the local people play there, including families and there’s tons of space for everyone - dog walkers, people having picnics, people slack lining between trees, kids running around and playing in streams. More than enough space for everyone to do what they want and not encroach on anyone else.

But whilst we’re here - aren’t kids also entitled to play outside? Are you one of those people that thinks children don’t have the same rights as others to enjoy nature - to become nature lovers, like you, as your name suggests? Why is it selfish to run around outside? They’re not trampling over people’s picnics. That’s usually the badly owned dogs…but that’s another thread.

Why do you conflate freedom of tearing around with bad manners? Why do you assume that because I encourage my kids to have freedom in nature that I do it at the expense of others? Why do you assume I’d sit back and smile indulgently as my kids ruin other peoples enjoyment? You’ve absolutely no idea what you’re talking about, making massive judgements and making yourself look pretty stupid.

I've befriended mums who manage to be ver glamerous and have perfectly turned out children. I also know plenty of lovely parents who's kids are far more im keeping with the 'boho' parenting OP describes. I get on with both and dd gets on with their kids. Why? Because I don't take anyone at face value and couldn't care less what your superficial ideals are as long as you're not a dick and I want my daughter to learn to do the same. I still haven't figured out a formula for which mum is going to embrace a friendship with me or which is going to refuse to give me the time of day based on how she or her kids look. You know why? Because it doesn't actually say that much about the common decency of a person. Maybe you should give this a try OP and you might not be so unfathamably bitter about mums who are probably just trying their best.

I think the PP have covered it when talking about fear of judgment. My DM and her family grew up in a working class area that was seen as “really rough” even within an already “rough” town.

My GM was absolutely impeccable in every way. Her home was spotless and always decorated perfectly, her clothes were kept on hangers with protective bags over them, shoes in the shoe boxes, hairdressers for rollers every week etc.

She was really strict about appearance and my DM was definitely a “dress and plaits and bows” child. My GM herself had grown up in such absolute poverty that she couldn’t stay on at school because her own parents couldn’t afford school shoes and uniform. That has to have an ongoing effect in terms of worrying about how other people see you and the way you are dressed.

My DM moved away from there and married someone from a different background. But the hangover from her own childhood is still there and comes out when she says things like “You can’t let a child out in odd socks, what will people think?!”.

The “What will people THINK” is a real theme. I remember her once faffing and tidying around before I had a visit from a health visitor , after one of my DC were born.

I was saying to her “the health visitor really doesn’t care if my house is messy” (normal level of “just had a baby” clutter, nothing alarming). But it was clearly something that mattered to her, and she is was concerned about what the health visitor would think.

I wouldn’t care about someone judging my parenting due to an odd sock (or, god forbid, double denim 😂) or worry about what any visiting professional might think if my house is a bit untidy, as I’m quite secure in myself and my parenting. Then again, I have grown up always having the things I needed, maybe I’d feel differently if I hadn’t.

Just your choice of words "tearing around". That's great you have the space. As you can see in my post my three also love playing out, they do so everyday but they are also very mindful of their surroundings & other people...

Bully you.

As are we. Respectful and considerate. But you’ve made massive judgements and shown that you’ve no idea what you’re talking about. You can’t seem to realise that you the two things can exist at the same time.

What’s ironic about this is that you think I’m bohemian when all I’m doing is emulating the very working class childhood I had - which whilst a struggle at times, also came with a lot of awesome things and freedom to play.

I think it's all to do with rules - they make us feel safe.
People like to boil all of life's bewildering complexities down into neat formulas - clean and matching kids = good parent / grubby and scruffy kids = bad parent. So when other people don't conform to the same ideals they feel threatened and get all snide and frothy.

Of course if the OPs hissy fit is in response to a brutal public fork-shaming then the woman was bang out of order and deserves all the venom heaped upon her ...

My three have the time of their lives outside but they know not to invade other peoples spaces, keep the volume down, they wear their shoes in the park

What does wearing shoes in the park have to do with being considerate of others enjoying nature? 😂

It's basic hygiene ensuring my dc don't trod on dog & chat shit.. A big problem in our parks as the "free range" dogs shit wherever they want as their owners can't be bothered keeping them on a leash & don't watch them running amok (with the kids)...

I'm not fork lady but I was there & I'm kicking myself that I didn't pipe up & question her families carbon footprint as she rabbitted on about their fly drive accross the states this summer.. especially as she called herself an eco warrior as an excuse for attacking fork lady for her single use plastic cutlery..

But what has this to do with bring a 'lefty' ? I guess you don't like woke either ?

I don’t think she likes very much at all.

I couldn't have written it better. My beloved mam was very much the school of being 'turned out' showed that you weren't poor/ your children had what they needed. It's very much a working class thing, and has roots in the 'No blacks, no dogs, no Irish' when her father arrived from Ireland. She was taught that they had to show they were good enough. I suppose she's passed that onto us. My older brother and sister are probably the most obvious (they're 12/11 yrs older than me) followers of the rules of being immaculate at all times, but the rest of us are still cognisant of appearance.

I would never take my kids to the park in old, worn, ripped clothes. They wouldn't be in their best by far, but would have clean, ironed clothes that were practical and vaguely matched. If I was taking them shopping in town/ theatre/ visiting a friend I would make sure they had nicer stuff on. I suppose it's the old 'In case you meet someone'. I shouldn't care, but it's ingrained, I suppose.

Each to their own.

Well I think it was hypocritical & a needless slight at that woman... Back to my point that there are these "free spirited" parents accross the UK & alot of the time their philosophy is a cover up for poor parenting.. Their kids are often in the bottom sets in dc's classes... Not given how unsportive this group are of the school & extracurricular activities...

You don’t need extracurricular activities to do well at school, you need brains and decent teaching. That phrase hadn’t even been invented when I was at school.

My DM moved away from there and married someone from a different background. But the hangover from her own childhood is still there and comes out when she says things like “You can’t let a child out in odd socks, what will people think?!”.

My IL and DP are very much like that - and I've encountered some comments from other parents - as PP said they struggled with stuff like this which gave me greater options to ignore - though DH and I do insist on good manners.

The “What will people THINK” is a real theme. I remember her once faffing and tidying around before I had a visit from a health visitor , after one of my DC were born.

MC class area I had pfb no-one HV or other parents cared or said anything about bit of untidiness - but when we moved other women seem to have no issue making pointed/nasty comments to me about things in my house - and I don't live in a hovel or surrounded by dirt though Dh and kids do lots of clutter and are pack rats- even in our first bought house we were clearly doing it up I had comments about why hadn't I finished the decorating - having no childcare and limited budget wasn't a good reason.

After a while I did start to get self conscious and worried - leaving me with ether rigidly enforcing standards no-one else living here is bothered about or faffing tidying before guests. MIL is particularly bad at feeding this in me which given her poverty ridden up bring does make sense - so I do end stressed and unhappy and resentful at hosting or having people in because I alone feel this pressure and I know it's irrational but it is there. I'm hoping as kid age and leave home this gets easier - less people to clean round and less fear of judging.

I still don’t understand the problem with kids playing in scruffy/holey clothes. That’s how I dress too for things like exercise or gardening. Smart clothes for smart occasions sure, but why do kids need to be dressed smartly at the park/beach/campsite etc?

And you can offset or remove emissions from the environment. You can’t do that with plastic.

I'm a leftie and my children were pretty scruffy when they were small, I also gave them lots of freedom to roam and explore. I am also anti-homework and school uniform. My children would dress themselves and if it was mismatched or was inside out I'd leave it, I didn't want to demoralise them. Do I sound like the type you mean?

BUT my children were always complimented on their impeccable manners. They were allowed freedom from a younger age then most nowadays but I was confident that they knew how to handle themselves as we were out and about so much. We'd go into the woods, pick berries, climb trees, make dens, have picnics. I wasn't lazy, I just had different priorities to you.