To think the able bodied / mind/ non carer/ non low wage s worker on benefits, benefit population that claim benefits should contribute somehow to the community/ get the money for WORK .

[Crikeymaccrikey]

Yes this may be costly to set up such as enhanced dbs checks etc.

I feel that this would both give a purpose and a contribution. And lead to jobs possibly/ develop cv / show work ethic.

In addition , it may stop the resentment and the benefit bashing if the claimants are seen to be contributing to society.

This is not necessarily a tory notion.
Karl Marxs idea about each to ones own ability... encompasses this idea of people working together for the whole of society accordi ng to ability. A quick google implies this is actually a socilaist idea of all doing what they can . This is what i am suggesting.

And before anyone says they would be pushed into things.. maybe there could be a choice of ways to contribute ,like on a data base.

Also, I am a cleaner myself. I literally clean poo off loos. I do not feel less worthy than others . I do the job because I can no longer work in my profession , as I get older, ( burnt out nhs) and see nothing but value in my ( ? Seen as some,lowly work). It gives me structure, a decent wage, and I contribute. All good. No shame in doing a good job , whatever that job if it is in my ability.

How can this idea, properly managed be other than reasonable. ?

MH nurses give people money now? Who told you that? Napoleon down the chip shop?

Wrong

@JustLyra

Depends on how long you’ve been doing the job and if your manager respects your opinion enough not to go against your recommendations. Takes a very strong character plus a LONG time in the role to challenge those from above mind.

Go on then... tell us about your neighbour who claims PIP and every benefit going, and has a flat screen and goes on loads of holidays.

@GuyMontag

Well as a MH nurse who works as a PIP assessor she probably does show more empathy than other assessors coming from purely clinical backgrounds who have NO idea about the many different MH conditions but yeah you carry on with your shit chip shop jokes 😂!

Different councils perhaps. Our agency has a permanent home within the council office and before you do a days work you complete mandatory paid training. The cynic in me says they’ve been sued too many times and their insurance is only valid if employees are trained.

@womaninatightspot

Most probably!!

Plenty of people on PIP/disability benefits work. The biggest problem facing disabled people in terms of working is not being able to find jobs/companies refusing accessibility requests/disability discrimination in the workplace.

The idea that disabled people are victim to learned helplessness and need to be forced ("incentivised" - most people WANT to work!) is so condescending.

Plenty of benefits claimants are actively prevented from working or studying because it would result in their benefits being stopped. I know people who have been offered really good (fixed term or parttime) jobs that would have enhanced their careers and future employability, and been forced to turn them down, because it would have meant their benefits being stopped leaving them with no income once the job came to an end.

I know a wheelchair-using student who was incredibly academically gifted and doing a STEM degree who was forced to drop out of uni because the DWP threatened her with prison and said you're not allowed to study while on benefits. But they were happy to pay for her to attend a mandatory course designed to teach her how to write her own name and address on an application form for a manual labour or cleaner job. This girl eventually wound up doing a PhD in neuroscience and having a fantastic high paid career, but the DWP threats set her back by years and resulted in her being on benefits far longer than if they'd just allowed her to study.

I have another friend who is deaf, who runs a major national company and has an MBE, who very nearly was forced to quit her job because her Access to Work was cut. Meaning she would no longer be allowed the BSL interpreter necessary for her to do her job. The government would rather an educated successful deaf woman be on benefits, than pay a much smaller amount of money for her to have disability access in the workplace.

The government don't actually want benefits claimants having careers or being educated, they think anyone disabled or anyone from a low-income family is scum and only good for manual labour.

The proportion of people who fit this criteria on extremely small.

How predictable.

This thread started with "oh of course I'm only talking about able-bodied benefits claimants!" and within just 9 pages has devolved into "99% of disabled people are lying liars who lie and disabled people are just lazy grifters."

I think you will find a very high proportion of people on benefits for more than a short amount of time are virtually unemployable because of physical or mental health issues.

No system is every perfect. You have to decide which of these two scenarios you are more comfortable with:

1. People slipping through the net and getting benefits they not be entitled to.


2. People slipping through the net and not getting benefits they should be entitled to.

Both of these things happen already. On balance I would prefer more of scenario 1 than scenario 2. In other words, I accept that our taxes will be wasted on people who abuse the system, but I would rather that than pay almost as much tax into a system that fails to support people in dire need.

@Bednobsbroomsticks

My sister has had people faking fits infront of her before, with no conditions such as epilepsy or anything present on medical records. Along with some really stereotypical behaviour that I’d probably be embarrassed to even write down for someone calling me out for being some sort of pathetic daily Mail reader.

A lot of naivety surrounding the whole thing. Yes some people really really do know how to con the system and this is in despite of pip being REALLY hard to claim.

Disabled people are not lazy grifters.

Those people who PRETEND to be disabled are. There's a difference.

Plenty of disabled people work.

Plenty of liars don't.

Exactly. I see it all the time. Those who know how to cheat get it. Those who don't and need it don't. Makes my blood boil

Okay, well if it's each according to their needs, they will need to get a decent income from this "volunteering", not poverty-level benefits.

You know that sentence from Marx had two parts, right?

If you see this happening in our society, where people in work cannot make ends meet, I think you're naive. And if you think our shitty government would not cock up a system like this, I think you're extraordinarily naive.

I mean if you're advocating communism that's one thing, but what you seem to be saying is "from each according to his ability, to each according to market force, probably at a fraction of his need and leaving him in poverty."

@JemimaPuddlegoose

Well they certainly do want people with mental health conditions in the workplace even those with severe and enduring psychotic conditions. It’s in the NHS long term plan and it is why employment specialists are now embedded into secondary MH teams so that they have access to personalised support that could help them with their recovery. For some employment has totally transformed their MH and kept them out of hospital. There’s a lot of research now on how effective the IPS model is at assisting those with poor MH back into the workplace.

But you claim that 99% of people who try to claim disability benefits are liars?

So where are all the actual disabled people, according to you?

Or are you one of those people who only tolerates us disabled people who conform to your idea of a "good disabled person" ie one who stays quiet, forces themselves to keep working regardless of whatever serious illness or impairment they have (how amazing! What is this Narnia-like wonderland you inhabit where disabled people never struggle to find jobs!), and wouldn't dream of being a drain on the system?

I am an ACTUAL disabled person and disability activist who has been directly involved in DWP both as a PIP recipient and in broader legal and media campaigns against the PIP process and companies like ATOS (obviously in the past) and the habitual proven lies told by PIP assessors, leaked videos proving that PIP assessors are told to lie and manipulate and ordered to reject valid claims, the fact a whopping percentage of PIP rejections are overturned in tribunal, and the many deaths associated with the rancid PIP system including cases where people in end stage terminal cancer have been rejected for PIP and found "fit for work" by PIP assessors - in more than one case the letter confirming that the PIP assessor had found the patient fit for work arrived after the terminally ill patient had died!

Then you should be outraged that people lie in order to claim benefits for people who really are affected by disability

I have psychosis and bipolar disorder in addition to being mobility impaired and I have never, ever even heard of this in my many years of engagement with NHS mental health services.

Where I live you get an antidepressant prescription chucked at you, maybe six sessions of talk therapy, and then you're on your own unless you have an episode of acute psychosis when you get locked up and sedated then chucked out.

I attempted suicide last year and was officially a missing person, had my door kicked in by police and was taken to A&E only to be then dumped in the waiting room for several hours, and they finally told me to go home without seeing any MH specialist because there was no duty psychiatrist available. It took something like 8 months to get my first assessment with a psychiatrist after that, and all I've been offered is drugs and some kind of online course about the importance of going to bed at the same time every night!

Not one word has ever been said about my job or career, they seem to want me to stop working and go on benefits!

WisherWood you say it is the fact that people have to show they have applied for jobs etc. ..that is true , but are you are aware that some people dont want to work and when they have applied for jobs to get the benefit folk off theirback they intentionally mess up the interview as they dont want to work.
? It happens ,it really does .

If there's a job that needs doing then pay a living wage.

Why should people work for under the nmw and take jobs from other people?

This!

why no just give someone the job if it needs doing, for a living wage?

Why have a benefits middleman whereby the person doing the work wouldn’t have a proper contract, pay, rights etc?

I simply don't believe you are telling the truth. I know from personal experience that what you are saying is lies.

Please answer my question: where are all the actual disabled people????

According to you only 1% of all PIP claimants are actually disabled. So where are all the actual disabled people?

Are you claiming that all disabled people are actually in work??