To think the able bodied / mind/ non carer/ non low wage s worker on benefits, benefit population that claim benefits should contribute somehow to the community/ get the money for WORK .

[Crikeymaccrikey]

Yes this may be costly to set up such as enhanced dbs checks etc.

I feel that this would both give a purpose and a contribution. And lead to jobs possibly/ develop cv / show work ethic.

In addition , it may stop the resentment and the benefit bashing if the claimants are seen to be contributing to society.

This is not necessarily a tory notion.
Karl Marxs idea about each to ones own ability... encompasses this idea of people working together for the whole of society accordi ng to ability. A quick google implies this is actually a socilaist idea of all doing what they can . This is what i am suggesting.

And before anyone says they would be pushed into things.. maybe there could be a choice of ways to contribute ,like on a data base.

Also, I am a cleaner myself. I literally clean poo off loos. I do not feel less worthy than others . I do the job because I can no longer work in my profession , as I get older, ( burnt out nhs) and see nothing but value in my ( ? Seen as some,lowly work). It gives me structure, a decent wage, and I contribute. All good. No shame in doing a good job , whatever that job if it is in my ability.

How can this idea, properly managed be other than reasonable. ?

I have MH conditions and
got managed out from the NHS (and it is HARD to get sacked from the NHS).
And when I tried to retrain and get back in, I got regarded as unfit for my HCP placement, and then kicked from uni. Mental health reasons again.
I did absolutely fucking try.
I was under CMHT for years... it was all about keeping me out of hospital and A&E. When I was stable enough for that, I was discharged.
There is no funding or staff now to get people back into work.

Yes my husband will get tons of applicants. Set up 2 days of interviews. Sometimes 1 person might show up.
People in this country are lazy. The pay is crap but people are still lazy. I'd work for crap pay because sitting at home is enough to make you go mad anyway.

I've supported people with cancer trying and failing to get pip while others with absolutely nothing wrong with them get back paid thousands.

If you think that's right you need a good shake

@JemimaPuddlegoose

What usually happens is the care coordinator refers to the IPS specialist within the community MH team what they believe to be a good candidate. Except sometimes they don’t have the “belief” that certain service users have the capacity to work. This is when the IPS specialist has to put their foot down and make it known that even those with incredibly severe MH issues can (and do work). The IPS model has to be embedded into every MH team now so it might be worth actually mentioning it to your care coordinator. For some service users it’s been revolutionary and reduced hospital admissions.

YANBU

The decision makers are not the managers of the assessors. They don’t even work in the same places.

Ot might happen.. but it's not a common occurrence because the Job Coaches will contact employers and ask why the prospective employee failed the interview.

My job coach has called several of the employer's I've I reviewed for and asked for.feedback on my.behalf.

And even if some do fall through the cracks, out of the tiny percentage of long term u employed and even small percentage will be falling through the cracks. A tiny percentage of a tiny percentage.. it would amount to a hill of piss to punish these people.
The government literally waste and wipe off billions of pounds every year.. or, lets put it this way.

I January the government wrote off 4.9billion lost to fraud..

4.9Billion
343 a month x 12 = yearly cost of 1 unemployed person.
4.9 billion divided by that yearly cost..
1190476.19048 years of paying an unemployed person..

The governments own figures state that only 0.5% of disability claims are affected by error and fraud.

There are simply not a fuck tonne of false Pip or ESA claims. It’s a myth pushed along by those that want the public go ahead to slash benefits for all.

The 4.5 billion was covid loan abuse - by businesses mostly.

Not by the unemployed claiming jobseekers.

So what are you going to do? Are you going to design the welfare state around a very small minority of people, who will work around any system you put in place anyway? Bearing in mind that by doing so, you put the majority who actually need the help in a nearly impossible situation. You punish them for what they are not doing. You push them to the edge, and sometimes right the way over.

Or are you going to design a system that assumes that most people actually do want to work. That helps people to find work. That treats them with basic humanity and decency, and helps lift them out of poverty? And yes, there will still be a few who take advantage. But A. they will do that whatever system is in place and B. none of what they get up to is half as fucking corrupt or costs anywhere near as much money as is siphoned off by the kleptocracy we currently live in.

I mean, you can spew all this hate filled nonsense all you like, but I will always be of the belief that a society should be judged by how it treats its supposedly weakest members. And if it decides to throw them to the wolves, on the off chance that someone somewhere diddles the system, then I will always fight to have it changed.

We need a welfare state that helps people. We are all entitled to this. It is not scrounging. It is basic care and decency.

Bugger cut off my post too soon

Yet it’s the unemployed and disabled that are under attack. Again.

Not in my experience

Can you think of any other groups that would be so incessantly attacked, mocked and insulted?

If someone started a thread and called all back people lazy and feckless..
Or one calling all trans people lazy liars..

Poor, unemployed, disabled.. fair targets it seems.

What's with the massive, inconsistant paragraph breaks?

I'm guessing this is a Tory idea being floated on MN to see the response. Possibles bots out today. Been a few of these threads today rummaging for people's opinions about people on benefits and the general consensus is the OP is over simplifying a complicated problem and needs to do more research, so maybe you could tell Truss and Sunak that they are oversimplified their policies and are lazy minded.

Don't even hide the above very well. Glaringly obvious.

And your experience is more in depth and prolific than the entirety of the DWP and the government?

I think not

Yup, businessmen and women are seemingly scroungers that lie too. Don't hear them getting slated though.

Yep.

and always by people who have experiences that go completely against the facts found by charities, the DWP etc,

it’s remarkable…

No one is calling disabled people liars. Simply saying that people do lie stating they are disabled to increase their benefits.

This has been a trend since UC. Because its so low people have fallen to pip to increase their income. Can you always blame them ? No. But can they work often? Yes. Are they always disabled? No

They are clueless mostly.

Well that certainly didn't happen to me, even though I have a very good job and successful career (fortunately in an industry that's extremely understanding of MH and very flexible) and a long and solid CV and good education. I've told my psychiatrist a million times that my main priority is returning to full-time work.

It took months and months for them to appoint me a care coordinator, and I don't even know them or really understand how get in touch with them. Nothing's been explained to me properly. I've had letters referring to my "MH team" but the only person I've actually met is one NHS psychiatrist who I have an appointment with once every couple of months. I was told I'm on the waiting list for some kind of talk therapy but I have to do this online well-being course first. I was sent a "care plan" in the post which says all this guff about how I should explore family support first and literally says "if you're in crisis turn to your family" when if they'd bothered to read my notes they'd know that the reason my MH bombed was because both my parents who were my only living relatives died and I'm single and have no family.

The NHS is struggling so badly after Covid you have to wait months just for an initial assessment then get fobbed off with drugs. I'm sure you're right and this does exist and in an ideal world is what's supposed to happen, I just find it very hard to believe "this is what usually happens" when it's so far from my experience and the experience of so many other people I know.

My next appointment with my psychiatrist is coming up so I'll certainly ask him if he's ever heard of an IPS specialist.

Ah but those good slightly-not-quite honest people work…

all the people claiming PiP are lazy scroungers who don’t…

Well, apart from the ones that do work, but obviously they’re the greedy thieves who shouldn’t really be claiming. Though they are obviously one step higher on the hierarchy than the lazy and greedy ones who claim, but shouldn’t and don’t bother to work.

I think that’s it, right?

Well maybe you should run for politics.

with your one person experience that’s so different to everyone else and your know better attitude I’m sure you’d sort everything in no time…

Exactly. The agenda-pushing is so obvious.

The allegation (which runs so completely counter to even what the disabled-bashing and benefits-bashing Tory government puts out) that a whopping 99% of disability claimants are faking is just so obviously untrue it's laughable.

If that were true it would mean that practically no actual disabled or seriously/terminally ill person is on benefits, in which case, what are all the actual disabled and seriously/terminally ill people surviving on? Yes lots of disabled people work but clearly not all!

Does Bednobsbroomsticks think disabled people live on fresh air? Or that we live in a wonderland where employment discrimination doesn't exist?

Go do my job for 30 years come back and we will talk then.

Stick your head in the sand and pretend I'm calling disabled people liars. I'm saying able bodied people lie to get benefits people WITH disabilities should be getting. If you can't understand that then don't bother replying