To think it's silly to refuse a C Section?

[sandradailey]

I have been attending an NCT class didn't have one in my area with DA

I've made a good friend who has a friend who's joined us recently.

We were talking about birth plans (and how they probably won't go to plan), and her friend said 'the only thing I'm saying on there is 'NO Section'

I said what do you mean, she said 'I will refuse a section'. I said but what if it's an emergency for example baby is in distress? She said 'nope, I won't have one. Simple as that. No section means no section. I may consider it if I'm dying from something like dramatic blood loss but otherwise, no. What'll be will be with the pregnancy itself'

The conversation then moved on but AIBU to think it's a bit silly to say no section whatsoever? So many variables can happen at birth

@Fluffygreenslippers I’m sorry you had that experience. That was one of the situations I wanted to avoid when I requested my c-section (that, and DS's heart rate was going a bit skew whiff and I wasn't going to hang around to watch it get worse). I’m so grateful that the medical team were supportive. Did you get a debrief afterwards where you were able to discuss the rationale for their refusal?

I had two "emergency" sections which where both horrific for entirely different reasons and turns out neither where actually an emergency. My third was a home birth. Like your NCT friend I had said that for my third the only time I would consider even stepping foot in the hospital, let alone the theatre would be in the case of immediate threat to life.

Sections have their place, either for women who choose them or situations that require them, but too often the criteria for them are set on really shitty research. You only have to look at the Cochrane database systemic reviews to see how poor the quality of research in women's health and pregnancy is.

In my experience obstetrics and midwifery are so overly medicalised. I don't blame her for not wanting a section. They're bloody awful.

To those posters suggesting that doctors would just perform a section anyway. Seriously, you're advocating that a fully competent and informed woman has medical treatment that she does not want forced on her?! Wow. This is exactly the mentality that is wrong with maternity care. That women are vessels to have care done to them and be told (and comply) with what to do.

@Teaandcakeordeath83 my section wasn't awful. Yeah okay, it was major surgery and that's never a walk in the park, but I was pain free from about a week after birth, exercising again after six weeks and now at ten weeks postpartum I feel almost totally back to normal and my body is well on its way to being back to normal too - I’m looking forward to starting running again in a week or two.

Everyone's experience is different and its unfair scaremongering to state baldly that EVERY c section is awful. It's statements like that which put women at risk by making them frightened to have one even when it's needed.

*it's

I've had a great section, textbook, recovered well.

I've also had a section where I haemorrhaged, developed sepsis, had a further haemorrhage, and was unwell for quite some time after.

No one with capacity to consent should be forced to have medical procedures they don't want (and even those who do not have mental capacity should only undergo procedures that are in their own best interests).

Had this experience just last Monday, after a fairly rapid labour. It was awful hearing hear heart rate drop every time a contraction happened. I managed to get away with a forceps delivery, but a section was next and as much as I'd wanted to avoid it I would have done absolutely anything to make sure my wee one was safe and well!

In my experience obstetrics and midwifery are so overly medicalised

I had the opposite issue. Took me 81 hours of broken waters, in agony as dc1 smashed his head into my sciatic nerve to convince them he was stuck. I had to get to full dilation and then push for 4 hours before they'd accept my diagnosis was correct. Turns out my suboptimal pelvis (flatter than normal) plus his giant head weren't a great match.

5 hours later, I got out of bed and got dressed. Never seen a midwife move so fast. Apparently you aren't meant to get out of bed without support.

I'd have assumed the same, but I read a case report recently about locked twin syndrome, where twins get locked at the neck/chin so that their heads are entangled and neither can enter the birth canal. It's extremely rare and when it does happen it's easily resolved with a section, but without a section it's ALWAYS fatal for at least one of the babies, usually both, and often the mother too.

And yet the mother in this report flat out refused a section, even as the babies' stats dipped and sadly finally showed that both had died. Ultimately she delivered the first baby breech and that one then had to be physically separated through horrible means from their twin so that the twin could also be delivered.

I recall at least one case where a woman refused a C section and the baby died as a result.

Ultimately it’s her body and her choice. Medical staff can’t override her unless she’s not of sound mind, and making a decision most would consider to be foolish doesn’t necessarily mean that someone isn’t of sound mind.

It’s absolutely nuts but I’m sure if she needed one she would get one.

This sort of birthing zealotry is normally quite quickly forgotten once the baby arrives and normal life resumes.

It is for people to say though, it’s an opinion forum and people can give their opinions on whether they think she’s stupid/selfish/right/wrong or whatever. What we can’t do is physically stop her from making the choice ie force a CS on her.

I have an opinion on a person who would rather their baby die than have a CS, and I’m entitled to voice it. They’re making a terrible choice, they are wrong (MH conditions aside).

I think you should mind your own business and concern yourself with your own birth.

Is it her first? First timers can sometimes be a bit precious - saying no c section, no pain relief etc as if medals are getting handed out after. I had two elective c sections and they were a dream. I don’t understand women who want to do it the hard way 🤷‍♀️

I would always refuse a section.......unless there was a risk to baby or me, which is the only reason imo sections should be offered.

And thats not because im some sort of hero or think a vaginal/natural birth means your a cut above the rest, its because its major surgery that poses its own risk of very real complications.

Well that is what I thought (and what I said, in the first part of my post) but that’s definitely what she said.

It would be a very odd thing for the dad to make up about the birth of his child, but perhaps he misunderstood what they were asking him.

Is there a possible phobia of surgery? I can’t think why someone would have such strong views against it otherwise.

So does a natural birth, I know two people whose children suffered brain damage because of difficult births, if they’d had elective c sections it wouldn’t have happened. At least with an elective c section there’s no emergency involved, all that labour and pain and you end up having a c section anyway. I can only speak from my own experiences and my elective c sections were stress free, pain free and relaxed. There can be a bit of pain after because of the stitches but once they’re out it’s fine. I never wanted natural births but that’s just me.

Vaginal birth pose some risks that are lower in c sections such as incontinence.

No :/
I requested one but I never heard back. I asked for a c section when I was repeatedly told baby was measuring large (99th centile) and was outright refused. I asked again during my awful, induced, was turned out to be 60 hour labour. I suppose I’m ‘lucky’ as my pelvic floor seems to be okay, but my actual pelvis is fecked.

A C section is not a minor thing. I don't blame any woman who would not want one unless a life threatening situation (to mum or the baby).

I won't call refusal in a birth plan silly. It's based in fear, a normal feeling when looking at birth and why these plans are as they are. I dislike how birth plans are often put out like a menu, it gives an illusion of more control than we have, but they're basically a tool of fear management and communication. If they were treated like that, they might work better. My latter birth plans included my fears and how I generally managed them. I found that far more helpful than going through all the possible outcomes.

My birth plans also included refusals - my disabilities put me at significantly higher risk when it comes to spinal anesthetic, so it said that in the event of a C-section or manual placental removal or similar, I need general anesthetic and I don't consent to any spinal anesthetics. That ended up happening for a manual placental removal, which was great as I'd lost the ability to talk while being prepped for that even when I was scared from hearing one midwife keep talking about my needing an epidural for it.

I also in my last labour refused active management of third stage until after the placenta had passed. I got some push back for that, even had a midwife try to hug me into changing my mind (literally hugging me while encouraging me for active management while still in first stage, it was weird), she didn't think my previous situations had anything to do with it, but I got a physiological management with the injection after the placenta had passed & it worked great for me, no extreme pain like I had with active management (having happened right after labour, I can say it was somehow a lot worse than labour), faster, and no retention issues. It might have to do with my conditions - I'm not suitable for a lot of 'normal' medication and/or that my placentas tended to be quite enlarged (last one got a lot of comments, it was too big for the bag they usually use so it had to sit on the table of tools taking over the whole thing for a bit), but while statistically riskier and I imagine some thought it was silly / reckless / fearful, it ended up being the right path for me.

Well exactly the point @ElegantlyTouched. They didn't insist but for medical reasons (which you may not have been aware of) they offered. Sections are more expensive they don't offer them on a whim.

Yes it absolutely does however trained medical staff should be able to assess these situations and advise strongly accordingly.

I remember with no. 1 I wrote ‘no forceps unless completely necessary’ on my birth plan. 😆

Essentially ‘birthsplaining’ to the medical team 🤣.

But yes - your friend is misguided I think.

Madness.

I didn't want a section, but when it became clear that DD needed to come out, I went ahead. The alternative doesn't bear thinking about.

NCT seems to be a breeding ground for this sort of nonsense.