To think it's silly to refuse a C Section?

[sandradailey]

I have been attending an NCT class didn't have one in my area with DA

I've made a good friend who has a friend who's joined us recently.

We were talking about birth plans (and how they probably won't go to plan), and her friend said 'the only thing I'm saying on there is 'NO Section'

I said what do you mean, she said 'I will refuse a section'. I said but what if it's an emergency for example baby is in distress? She said 'nope, I won't have one. Simple as that. No section means no section. I may consider it if I'm dying from something like dramatic blood loss but otherwise, no. What'll be will be with the pregnancy itself'

The conversation then moved on but AIBU to think it's a bit silly to say no section whatsoever? So many variables can happen at birth

Surely if the chance of the baby dying is high, the doctors will do a c section regardless of her demands?

If that's not the case and she's that uncaring about her baby before it's born, that child has no hope.

Did she say why?
I mean when it comes to it she’ll agree to anything I’d imagine but yeah it does seem silly. I had a section and it was fine.

It's still her choice though and medical advice is exactly that - advice. She's under no obligation to accept that advice or consent because we don't force people with capacity into accepting medical procedures they don't want.

Some people need to learn everything the hard way.

On another forum I came across a woman who had a traumatic emcs with DC1, was advised to have a planned Cs with DC2, she wanted a 'natural' delivery. She got her wish, but baby was stillborn. It was only then she realised how close she'd been to loosing DC1, DC3 was a planned Cs.

No, they won't override her right to consent. The only time they would do so is if she didn't have capacity to consent (e.g., was unconscious) and there are procedures/pathways in place for scenarios like that. The focus would be on preserving her life as she's the patient, baby would be secondary to that (although obviously both would be preserved if possible).

I’ve had 2 sections over 25 years ago. They come with their own long term issues - I have dreadful back issues for instance. But I know far more women who have had awful gynae issues for years after, including my mum, that just get worse with age . Prolapses, severe double incontinence , needing hysterectomy etc.

I think she needs to read up on potential damage like 3rd or 4th degree tares vs c section damage. But I doubt she’ll do that
some people just have a weird and illogical perception of various risk of different scenarios. In my experience the spinal is worse part of c-section and epidural ain’t that much different so it’s all a bit bat shit crazy.

If the baby’s life is in danger they may force her to have c-section by taking a legal route. There have been 2 cases in uk where a judge has imposed c section on birthing woman ….which does go against the principle of a mothers autonomy over her body vs personhood of baby not existing until moment of birth in uk, but it has been set as a precedent now in extreme circumstances by those 2 judges.

She's clearly f'ing nuts and definitely not someone you should have as a 'mum friend' in your life.

Surely if the chance of the baby dying is high, the doctors will do a c section regardless of her demands?

They can't just cut her open without her consent, no. Not without a court order, which is highly unlikely to happen given that time is usually of the essence when it comes to these things. Until the baby is born, the Mother is the patient and they can very strongly advise but she has a right to bodily autonomy.

In the UK the foetus has no rights until it is born, so the doctors and midwives cannot perform a c-section without the woman’s consent, as long as she is found to have capacity. As a midwife I have begged a woman to consent to a c-section as we could hear her baby slipping away. Thankfully she eventually consented and the baby survived but it’s an awful situation for everyone involved.

When I was giving birth there was an emergency and I was wheeled to Theatre for an emergency c section. I would have had it if it had come to it but in Theatre they agreed to give me an extra 5 minutes to see if we could get the baby out vaginally, which I did manage with seconds to go.

A straight refusal of a c section I don’t understand but trying to avoid one if you possibly can, I do understand.

That's ridiculous. I understand a lot of people prefer a natural birth but I simply can't understand why you'd decline a section if the baby was in distress. Did she give a reason?

100% this

I very much doubt that what's she saying

To be honest, I was scared of having a c-section when pregnant but a friend of mine had a selective one and said it all went well. I think I was more scared of the recovery than the actual procedure itself, I think I read some horror stories and it put me right off so didn't really research it properly! Bit like googling symptoms and coming to the realisation that it must be cancer! 🤦‍♀️

I didn't need one for either of my births but I would have to save my babies.

It's very strange to go through a pregnancy with her attitude though, no vaginal birth = equals no baby!! That's very extreme

I always thought this was the case (the woman is the patient until the baby is born, so their priority is to her) but someone I know was telling me recently that hospital staff had this discussion with the partner of a friend of hers when things were looking very serious. It’s possible he exaggerated slightly when he told the story though, I guess.

I’m fairly certain she’d change her mind if it actually came to it OP, but to be honest I find it quite disturbing that she’s even thinking it. I’d avoid as much as possible!

People say lots of things until they are physically in labour they won’t know what they’ll do
I didn’t want pain relief 😂 oh how I changed my mind pretty bloody quick

Bloody hell. My only non-negotiable was 'no high forceps'; I really wanted a natural birth but when things started to go a bit wrong I actually requested a c-section rather than risk putting DS in danger.

It was fine, and if I have another baby I'll have to think quite carefully about whether I even want to try a VBAC or just go straight for an ELCS.

I can't believe she'd be willing to risk her own baby's life rather than have medically necessary caesarean. Does she have significant body image issues and is worried about the impact of surgery on the appearance of her stomach? I'll be honest and say this was (and still is) a big concern for me - but not more of a concern than my baby's safety!

I remember once seeing a CTG where you could see the baby dying - it was horrendous (and it was being reviewed as a learning objective - all anonymised - and being asked when you would have intervened - I think every single person was saying they'd have intervened about 6 hours before the birth (which was about 20 minutes after the heart rate vanished for the last time) we were told by someone who had been there on the actual day - all the staff had been pleading with her (some in tears) because they all knew they were watching that baby die but couldn't convince her to change her mind, and in the UK the fetus has no rights until birth

Is she a FTM? Many have a fixed idea of what their labour will be like when in fact we have little control. It's a roll of a dice if it turns out well. I'm sure she will change her mind while actually in labour.

Of course it’s silly but I doubt she will see it through. It sounds like she’s been on those Mother Earth type websites. She’ll see sense if she’s actually in that position.

Very immature outlook.

I didn't want a C section (simply due to the longer recovery time, not for ideological reasons) and thankfully didn't need one, but I would not have hesitated for a moment if there was a risk to either me or the baby.

I don’t think anyone LIKES the idea of major abdominal surgery. But the fear that takes hold when you hear your baby’s heart beat weakening during labour is like no fear I’ve ever felt before.

I’m usually very analytical and like to make fact-based and data-driven decisions. But at the moment in my first labour, when the obstetrical resident came up to me and said “I’d like to discuss the idea of a C-Section. There are a few risks you need to know before giving consent.” I pretty much shouted “no discussion needed, I consent, let’s go, let’s go, let’s go”.

Thankfully my mum calmed me (and the poor resident!) down and my DD was born vaginally about 10 minutes later. My DD was completely fine, but I’m painfully aware that things might not have ended so well had my contractions not sped up considerably towards the end. I was ready to pounce on that C-section if that’s what the baby needed.

I wish I had has a section rather than a theatre delivery with forceps and a bloody 4 inch long episiotomy. I asked them and was shut down. I lost so much blood (saw it all over the floor when I was wheeled out, had to have 2 transfusions) and the stirrups I was put in made my spd worse and i’m now half crippled. Would have loved a lovely calm fucking section.

someone I know was telling me recently that hospital staff had this discussion with the partner of a friend of hers when things were looking very serious. It’s possible he exaggerated slightly when he told the story though, I guess

They would never ask a partner to choose which one to save. Could you imagine the guilt and emotional trauma? The medical team would make such decisions based on clinical presentations, that's what they're trained for. The life of the woman would always be prioritised as she is the patient, the baby doesn't become a patient until it is born at which point it would be handed off to its own medical team and the initial medical team would carry on their work with the woman (at emergency sections there will be staff there specifically for the baby once it is born). If the woman was too far gone (e.g., already past the point of survival/already dead) then focus would switch to getting the baby out.

I had a natural textbook delivery. I was left with urge incontinence and repeated bladder irritation. I think my labour damaged my bladder as I laboured mostly at home arrived at 10cm . Issues post natural delivery aren't talked about I'd have a c section next time as I wouldn't want to be left in nappies.