New neighbours complaining that our kids are distressing their dog

[InYerFace]

New neighbours (a couple, late 40s so similar age to us, but no kids) came around last night to complain that the sound of our teen boys playing in the garden was upsetting their dog who is a rescue, very nervous and reactive to sound.

I'm really torn on what to do. I'm sympathetic to their situation and I really don't want to fall out with them. I know the dog has problems because it barks at us from his side of the fence whenever we go out in the garden. When they came round to complain they brought the dog with them to show us what it's like - the woman had it in her arms and it spent the whole time growling and baring its teeth.

The kids had two friends over yesterday and they were playing basketball. My dilemma is that while I'm sympathetic, I don't think the noise they were making was excessive - no screaming, no music blaring, just the sound of kids playing in the garden. The ball doesn't thud loudly on the floor as the garden is grass with no paving or decking so its muffled, but it does clatter when it hits the hoop.

I get that the clatter would be annoying after a while, but I wouldn't say it was any more annoying than the noise of their dog barking at us through the fence and I wouldn't dream of complaining about that. It's just part and parcel of life.

Last set of neighbours never complained about the kids playing, but they did have grandkids of their own who came regularly and made a fair bit of noise so they were probably as immune to the noise of kids playing as we are!

They also said they were worried that the ball would come over and hit their dog, even though it didn't.

I've told the kids they're not to play basketball anymore to keep neighbourly relations cordial, but it is a shame as they absolutely love it and it will probably mean they're just inside playing X Box.

The problem is is that because they're teens, most of the games they'd want to play in the garden do involve some kind of ball. Do I just resign myself to a summer of them sat inside? We do have a local park but it's quite some distance away and seems a shame they can't use their own garden.

If you want to be excessively nice I'd suggest that you guarantee an hour in the morning and an hour in the afternoon when your kids won't play outside. They can let the dog out then. Or otherwise why can't they just keep their dog inside all the time? They are pretty stupid to be picking a fight over this with their new neighbours!
Other than that they should just get rid of the dog. It doesn't sound suited the lifestyle they are offering.

That was what jumped out at me too. They don't have the first clue of what's best for that dog.

I'm with your DH on this one. Your teens' use of the garden should not be restricted, tell them you've reconsidered and them playing with a ball out there is fine. When she kicks off again, do NOT go into people pleaser mode! Be firm and tell her that you've decided it's best that your children not be driven out of their own garden because of her dog, and that her dog's problems are hers to solve and not yours. If you don't think you can be firm with her, by all means ask DH to deal with her, but really you could use the practice of saying 'no'.

Personally I'd be so thrilled that my teens preferred basketball in the garden to a games console, I'd happily go to war with my neighbour over this!

In that case, I think they're just going to have to bring the dog in when they're playing outside. It's normal daily living sounds, so it's unreasonable of them to ask.

It's their problem if they moved to a place that is unsuitable for their animals. Don't change anything. Let them sort it out.

Advocate for your kids OP. It's time to put them first.

You are also as batshit as the neighbours are! Stop pandering to them! Your kids are doing nothing wrong. Let them play as much as they want. It is up to the neighbours to train the dog not just avoid situations.

Speaking as someone with a reactive rescue dog (we're her fourth home, and were the third in a week when she was a tiny puppy, horrifically) who also hates ball games being played outside "her" fence/sight line, I can sort of understand your neighbours worry about their small dog potentially being badly injured if hit by a ball coming over the fence at speed...

But I would wonder at their ulterior motives for this demand, to be honest. Are they worried their dog might get through the fence and - going on your description of teeth baring and growling - attack one of you? Are they using verbal commands to stop the dog from barking at you whenever you go into your garden - or are they annoyed at their peaceful garden time being disturbed because you want the same in yours (and aren't getting it)?

Please don't stop your teens from utilising their own outdoor space - I have a 17 year old boy whose idea of summer is garden or Xbox or watching rubbish on his 'phone. The fact that they willingly go outside to play any sort of game in a safe space to do so is something to be encouraged! Perhaps start telling the neighbour's dog to be quiet in a firm voice whenever it barks at you in your garden - and if/when they complain tell them that Environmental Health will be extremely interested in the fact that they are causing a disturbance to the peace by not controlling their aggressive little dog?

My dog will (now) remove herself from situations that she finds stressful - but it took a lot of work, a lot of explaining to the neighbours that we were working on her reactive barking, and fortunately them being great because I wasn't demanding that they stop their own kids from playing in their own garden spaces! If anything, I was encouraging it because it was either going to teach her to be less sensitive to it... or to walk back into the house under her own steam. She loves children and isn't aggressive - but a frightened dog is a dangerous dog, at the end of the day, because barking and teeth-play (baring them/biting with them) are their go-to methods of "stay away from me/my loved ones" communication. Actually, as I'm replying my neighbour's young grandchildren are playing in the garden, shrieking and having fun... the back door is open on our side, and my dog is lying on her bed waiting for them to calm down a bit before she might venture outside for a quick wee before hurrying back inside. No growling, no teeth baring, no barking... just little huffs of impatience every now and then. If we see the grandchildren when we're leaving the house and she's on a lead (with feet on the floor!), she'll enjoy them making a fuss of her whilst I chat to their grandparent(s) quite happily (and sulk when we part ways!). But we've worked bloody hard to get to this point - for her sake more than anyone else's. Whilst I joke that she's my favourite child... she's an animal at the end of the day who relies on us to help her out a little by making her feel secure in an environment that - and this is the crucial bit - involves others going about their daily lives around us. Kids playing, cars revving their engines, doors slamming, people yelling, radios blaring. If I can't do that, if I can't assist a rescue in continuing to live a life where they are secure and know that they are loved - then I ought not to have a dog of any sort, rescue or not.

Their dog is neither your problem, nor your responsibility, OP. From your description, it sounds stressed out beyond belief - but I'd hazard a guess that's from having been landed with, undoubtedly well meaning people who are ineffectual/downright shite/possible "she's our substitute baby!" owners. For all you know, the dog may not be a rescue and they're the ones who have caused it to be reactive through their lack of comprehension that all dogs need a (positively) firm hand at their helm to feel secure in their environment.

At the very least, if they complain again, I would be suggesting that they need to work on curbing their dog's aggression - because if it gets through the fence (and dogs dig holes...), you're worried it will attack a member of your family and subsequently have to be destroyed. See how quickly they stop complaining about your kids, then...

"I know the dog has problems because it barks at us from his side of the fence whenever we go out in the garden."

Ooh, forgot this point. When she next complains about your teens in their garden (because we all know it's a when not an if), I'd be petty and complain about her dog barking whenever you're in the garden, and tell her to control her dog.

TBH, if this dog's on it's third home because it has been abused in the past, I'd be asking her what she's doing to help the dog. I suspect she's doing bugger all other than normal care and cooing over it. I don't think she's up to the job.

In the nicest possible way OP you’re being really a pushover even considering asking your kids to tone it down! The dog barking is the real problem and no way would I put up with it barking every time I went into my own garden! Your neighbours need to shut up and even more importantly shut their vicious dog up 😳 kids playing is perfectly acceptable behaviour in their own garden.

So they're dog can be in the garden as much as it wants and bark possibly distressing people. But your own children can't play in your garden for a few hours.

It wouldn't hurt to bring the dog in while they are out there. Or take the dog for a walk. My kids used to be scared of barking dogs because of sensory issues. Used to scream the more distressed they got the more the dog barked.

You don't force your children to stop playing so some dog can not hear them.

What next?
Your kids or you playing music in your house upsets the dog?
Will it like the way you shut the door if you leave the house in a hurry?
Maybe the dog doesn't like your laundry if you hang it on your line?

You shouldn't change a single thing over somebody elses dog.

If they cared about the dog living without a single sound that upset it, they would have moved to the middle of nowhere.

You didn't choose to take the dog on & nothing to do with it is your responsibility.

People come first.
You are not hurting the dog.
It just doesn't get to rule your life & decide what your family can or cannot do.

I'm genuinely so surprised there's such a consensus on this one. Was expecting the majority of people would side with the dog-loving neighbours over the sports-loving teens.

As a compromise, and for the sake of neighbourly relations, I've decided that the next time they've got friends over we'll encourage them all to go to the park to play basketball. If it's four of them, excitement and sound levels do increase and it might be that we are BU but we can't tell as we're desensitised to it. But if it's just the two of them they can crack on.

Honestly, if you stop your kids playing ball in the garden you’re an absolute mug. She is being so outrageously unreasonable, I can’t believe you’re even taking her on in the slightest. I would start to complain every time her dog taps at you through the fence and spoilt your enjoyment of the garden. Cheeky cow.

Absolutely do not stop your kids playing in their garden! I have a nervous and reactive dog and no way would I ask someone to stay out their garden! Its ridiculous! The dog is your neighbor's problem and if they ask again just state that you appreciate it must be difficult for them but its incredibly unreasonable of them to expect you to stay out your own garden. Then leave it at that. Theres nothing they can do. Except get a behaviourist for their dog!

You are sounding a little bit more wet lettuce with every post OP. In a MN first for me (I kind of want a badge), I think you need to listen to your husband a bit more. It's the summer, it was three hours, it's fairly unusual to have four DCs out. It's fine.

I posted above to say I was a reactive dog owner and they were in the wrong. I really want to move house, but I won't while DDog is still with us because I want to move further into the city which potentially would put me in the same position as your neighbours. I can't particularly be arsed to train it out of him, so I'm staying put in our very quiet street. Those are the kinds of choices you make! It's not up to anyone else to facilitate my dog.

so for 24 hours a day 7 days a week 365 days a year your own ds is not allowed to play in his own garden? that was their request?

If they come round and ask for 2/3 hours a day to have a time when their dog could go out it would be different to ask though for a blanket ban on playing ball in your own garden day pr nigh all the time is unreasonable request

Dog owner here

they are being incredibly unreasonable, it is not reasonable to expect neighbours to stop using the garden plus it is the holidays, are your kids supposed to twiddle their thumbs all summer?

What will it be next? The dog won’t tolerate you watering plants due to the sound of the hose?

They need professional support and advice for the poor dog, I accept the dog must be scared but the animal is reacting to normal noise and for its comfort, safety and health they need to address this, not you or your teenagers.

My English Springer was a reactive dog when he was rehomed with us and would bark at anything, which was awful for our hard working shift patterned neighbour …. We worked with professionals to help my ( now lovely elderly and quiet spaniel) dog and ensure that the poor neighbour could sleep.

It also seems quite inappropriate for them to bring an anxious and frightened dog to your house when complaining, the poor dog would have been scared with unfamiliar people and being held in the arms of the owner…. Also if the ball goes over the fence, well that’s what happens when living in a normal family area with adjoining gardens ( just as you cannot complain if the dog punctures the ball if it goes onto their property).

I’d advise them that you have had a think and that the teens will be playing out in their garden. You could be gracious and add that if they have a trainer desensitising the dog you would ask for them not to play for that particular 30 mins etc… sorry to say but think they might be high maintenance. I also wouldn’t be best pleased by a dog snarling through the fence when I’m enjoying my garden!

They’re CFs who’ll only get worse if you pander to them. Who moves to a new house and has the brass balls to ask the neighbours to stay inside and keep quiet because they want to give their nervous dog free rein to bark in the garden all day?! As well as being ridiculously entitled, they obviously have no clue how to handle a reactive dog.

Sorry, OP, but you either need to grow a backbone or let your DH deal with them. I’m all for keeping cordial relations with neighbours but they sound batshit and it’s totally unfair of you to penalise your kids.

If you roll over for them this time you can be assured it wont stop there. They will carry on and on.
I suggest a compromise - they shut the hell up (or move to a non family area) and you carry on as you were 👌

OP, I honestly doubt your kids are excessively noisy at all. My neighbour's reactive dog used to get agitated the moment it sensed our presence in the garden at all, even if it was just me pottering about watering plants on my own. The neighbours used to call him in when he barked at us, though. His behaviour was partly their fault because he was rarely if ever walked and therefore massively under-socialised. He didn't understand what was 'his' garden and what was other people's space, basically, so he thought we were trespassing! Whereas most dogs have developed a sense of the difference.

@InYerFace Do not do this.

You are being a mug. Your DC should be able to use their own garden.

You need to stand your ground, be polite, say no. If you do this now, they will carry on with batshit requests.

I would call over and say ‘I thought about our conversation and we have decided that our children can play in the garden and if your dog doesn’t like it, then bring it inside’

And also, piss off.

Could you agree times? They are teens so say between 8am and 12noon they won't play and dog can have fresh air.
They probably aren't up particularly early!

But from noon onwards your teens can use the garden as appropriate?

Sorry I don't see why children should be forbidden from playing in their garden for 4 hours a day so that a dog can go in the garden. What would the dog even do for 4 hours a day in the garden, don't they mainly go to the toilet and then go back inside?