Ukrainian guest …I’m not feeling comfortable

[CookieDoughKid]

I’ve been hosting a Ukrainian mother and 15yo daughter since beginning of May. We get on ok although we live very different lives even before the war. She’s a SAhM and I’m a working mum full time. It’s been difficult for her to adjust because her husband used to do everything, such as banking, booking train tickets, appointments. It’s been a real learning curve having to stand on her own feet here. Fortunately she can speak some English so over time, I have been able to take a step back from supporting her on how to live in England. her dd will be taking GCSE exams next summer term.

My kids and her dd don’t like each other and don’t get on. The mother is a bit work shy in that she is very choosy about jobs being offered to her by the job agency. She does a week here or there. Nothing permanent or full time. She is not claiming UC after it was made apparent she would have to look for work or go back to work full time. Her husband is supporting her financially. I broached the subject of long term accommodation and the challenges of finding rent. I was surprised to learn they have 10000 USD saved, husband has a good job in software in Ukraine. They are prepared to rent but would rather not as they don’t want to ‘waste their money’. I know they’d rather go back home if the war was over.

I had pledged at the start to give them half of the £350 thank you money from Gov to be used as a deposit for their rent when they move on. That’s £150 a month I would give to them for the 12 months commitment. I keep £150. I know I don’t have to do it but I wanted them to feel like they have some longevity here without too much hardship. That was prior to me learning about their savings. With everything going on at home, me working full time, my two teens…I’m finding it all a bit much. The mother is lovely but so talkative and she’s always there. Sand my day is incredibly busy, I travel for work, I have my own children to look after.

what gripes me is that she also doesn’t pay a single thing or offer when I’ve said from the start she needs to sort it herself I’m talking about washing powder and sundries….she does pay her own food. I’m starting to resent the fact that she never offers to pay for dishwasher tablets, stationery paper, toilet roll, cling film, aluminium foil, washing powder, cleaning goods, kitchen napkins etc… It all adds up.

Come October, it will have been 6 months of me hosting. Would I be unreasonable to ask her to plan on moving out …I think I can tolerate them living with me to Jan 2023 (that would be 9 months in total) but she’s mentioned she wants to stay with me till next June so that her dd can sit her exams without interruption.

Should I ask for a household contribution? And what about the £150 a month I pledged? It’s not that I can’t afford it, I can but I feel I’m being taken for a ride.

she mentioned she wanted help in applying for UC housing benefit in the future which does not sit well with me knowing she is supported by her husband, has savings and is choosy with jobs?

fwiw, we both try very hard to get on. She’s helpful sith cleaning and so am I, and we have a good rhythm in sharing the kitchen etc. we don’t argue and we haven’t had any major spats.

it’s just that I am finding it hard to live with someone who is so different in outlook to me and living with us full stop. My dad was a refugee, he held down 3 jobs 7 days a week for a while and that work ethic is very strong in me (I don’t rely on my husband financially and never have but that’s my choice). I know if I was to live with someone not out of choice I would work really hard, and try to move out as soon as possible!

would like your perspective on this. I feel really guilty even thinking about asking her to move out but also, I feel they would have had 8 or 9 months free living so..isn’t that generous in itself?

Tbh, that HASNT been my experience with all hosts.

Most hosts thought it would be bad in terms of government support. Especially after the debacle with visas.

What they underestimated was just HOW bad.

Stuff like applying for schools has been a lot more difficult than it should have been. The situation for 16 to 18 year olds is particularly arse. Dealing with the job centre and council and being given duff information has lead to hosts running around in circles in ways they really should not have. Funding for bus passes came through in mid July because central government hadnt informed local councils of how much they were getting never mind released the money.

Getting english lessons sounds easy. In reality its a bit of a nightmare trying to get the right level. Online courses are patchy. Demand is too high for them. And really you need face to face practice. I think there are something like 30 places for ESOL in my council. Theres about ten times more demand last time I was told.

In the meantime hosts are expected to fill in the gaps by the council and guests alike. Guests aren't always looking around for things like online English themselves because they somehow see it as their host's responsibility.

We all followed the zeitgeist - my reason was hearing about attacks on places I’d been to and friend rushing to rescue her dad. None of my colleagues in nice liberal, well- paid workplace are doing this - I had the ‘aren’t you marvellous’ comments but that was disingenuous too. One friend is definitely doing it to help with the bills - she has moved to the sofa and thought the money would do her for winter fuel bills. It is going to be a right mess in the autumn when six month point is reached. Sometimes I joke ‘dryly’ about my ‘pet Ukrainians’ but the war weariness is setting in across Europe. I can’t explain the nuances to either gushy colleagues or on the local host FB group but it’s a bit like going on holiday with the in-laws - good in parts but bloody hard work in odd ways and teetering on the edge of someone having a meltdown or sulk at least once a day.

Hope you've found some support on here OP (and can ignore the mean spirited posts). Another recommend for the post from RedToothBrush at 14.00 bringing her usual wise and insightful perspective to this challenging issue.

So you can say I agreed to put aside money to help with your deposit - we signed up for 6 months - so that's £900.
Then you can change things.

You've done a kind thing and helped her and her DD with a place to stay in U.K., but now she needs to find a job and a place to rent. It's ok to give notice as you know you can be a little flexible. There are people in each borough council who work with Ukrainians who will be able to help her with housing and UC claim and finding somewhere to rent. Why don't you ring up local borough housing dept and ask for someone to contact to start helping with that process. Then they can help her get settled in this year before the run up to GCSEs.

Ultimately if it's become a strain sharing your home, then you do have to put your DCs first. Your guest won't be out on the streets- if she accepts the support offered and whilst she may prefer to stay until after July next year that's not an option if it's not what you feel you can offer.

Yes I agree with this. My sister is hosting, and did an enormous amount of work pre-arrival. Sponsoring a mother and child to leave a war zone was a lot of paperwork and phone calls, internet applications, in addition to paying for their flights and transport costs. If they left now, that good deed would not be undone.

OP,

You sound like an extraordinarily kind woman to have done this.

My 70 year old neighbour has done this, but with 3 spare bedrooms including an antic conversion with ensuite she has plenty of room and was able to give them their own living room.

She too has been asked by them to stay on till next June but as they are all working she feels the 6 month point is reasonable to stick to.

I think she has been extremely kind to do this.

In your case I think 6 months is more than enough for your children to have coped with. I think they should have their space back as a priority.

I don’t think she is a fake, she sounds to me like a really decent human being that hoped it would work out. In reality it’s probably really difficult to have someone in your home 247 but op was willing to help and assist another family in dire straits.

Oh do shut up TSIFT. She’s a single mother with a successful business not living in a one bedroom flat. She was doing a kind thing, not surprised you don’t understand that as you sound so unpleasant.

I find it really interesting to read this both a someone with family in Ukraine and working in the area. Unfortunately, this situation was totally predictable the minute the scheme was set up and it is a shame that this hasnt been publicised more widely. The government didnt want to anger Daily Mail readers but got criticised so much for not letting refugees in that they essentially left it up to the individuals and to some extent local councils. It was a terrible policy and only shows how little governance our current lot actually do in practice.

I am sorry that you are struggling. That is totally understandable. You've had no training and little structural support to manage a refugee family. All of this is unacceptable. Anyone with experience of managing refugee flows will tell you that most refugees are the better educated, financially wealthier and best networked individuals. Poor families from bombed out areas of Eastern Ukraine dont know and would never make it to the UK. However, there is always an expectation and assumption that refugees are poor, uneducated and grateful for anything. In practice, most often these are upper middle classes from which ever country they are fleeing and its not unreasonable to assume that they will see cleaning or waitressing as beneath them.

When my family moved form former soviet Union - my father got a job in his field but my mother didnt work (despite having a phd and working in a highly educated field back home). When I once queried why it was that we were growing up poor but she didnt work - my father replied that it would have been inconceivable that my mother would stoop so low as to get a low level and low paid job. so they were happy to be poor than her having to go beneath herself. Eventually she retrained, learnt English got a well paid job and they now have a very naice life in London.

But all in all - that is why the blame has to be placed at the feet of the government. This scheme was not a policy or even a scheme - it was a cheap way of pacifying the papers and now real people both the hosts and the refugees are struggling and that is unacceptable.

I think you’ve signed up to something which is a huge commitment without thinking it through. What was the original commitment? I would think you should stick to that. I can’t imagine what it feels like for this woman and her family.

Most hosts thought it would be bad in terms of government support. Especially after the debacle with visas
What they underestimated was just HOW bad

Yes, that sounds reasonable; perhaps I was a little unfair in thinking that potential hosts would expect everything to be rosy, or maybe I was misled by the sort of virtue signalling can all too easily substitute for actual thought, but at least they know now which may lead to better-informed decisions in future

We have been hosting 2 Ukrainians since March. Our experience has been mixed really. We all get along, have had no real disagreements but sometimes I have to admit, I find it hard.

My DH and I have demanding, full-time jobs, we both work 12 hours days at least. We also have a large house and garden to run, so we get little downtime. We are 55 and 57 btw. Our guests are 38 and 16. The mother has a PT job, about 15 hours per week, her child is at school.

What I find difficult is that they spend a lot of time sleeping or napping. Any activity is followed by a nap. They don't do very much proactively around the house aside from emptying the dishwasher. However, if they see me doing my housework frenzy on Saturday morning, they will watch me for a 30 mins and then ask to help. They will then do one job, say wash the kitchen floor before going for a nap.

I feel like a workhorse. I cook about 60% of the meals and DH and I do about 85% of the washing up. To complain feels petty and I feel bad when I get grumpy about it. I don't want gratitude, but neither do I want to feel taken for granted.

The mother is not particularly bright in common-sense terms, though she is a graduate. Her English is very poor, so having a frank conversation is incredibly difficult. We live in an expensive part of the country, so God knows how they could move out without changing schools and that child has already had enough change!

Had I known this in advance, would I have hosted? Yes, I would and I would do it again. But like OP, I reserve the right to moan sometimes, and mention annoyances.

I have a new, slightly lazy, literally dopey sister now and I believe we will be for ever linked. She can really piss me off, but I do love her and I hope we will have an on-going relationship.

It is not easy, but then very few worthwhile things are easy.

The main issue for me is that they have the money to rent but don’t want to and prefer not to work. Where as you are working full time and are spending a good chunk of that to support them. That doesn’t make sense. Obviously no one wants to depend their ‘life savings’ when they don’t have to but they are quite happy taking your money.

Oh, I forgot the point of my post! I keep all the £350. It costs us more than that to host considering utility costs, food, drink, I bought them new clothes and bedding... The terms for the Ukrainians coming here were clear, they have the right to come to live AND work.

Sorry in advance- I’ve not read the full thread. But the part that stood out for me was that your children don’t like them. That was enough information for me- it’s their home whether they are being reasonable about the dislike or not. Charity begins at home, always. You can choose to have people in your house, your children cannot.

I was just looking at the government link - from that, my understanding is that the £350 is purely a thank you payment to hosts, and not expected to cover household costs - the info actually says that hosts could charge guests for food etc.
www.gov.uk/guidance/homes-for-ukraine-scheme-frequently-asked-questions
Am I expected to provide meals too or just accommodation?
Just accommodation. However, there is nothing stopping sponsors offering meals should they wish. You may offer this philanthropically or ask guests for a contribution to the cost of food. You will not be expected to cover the costs of food and living expenses (although you may wish to offer this philanthropically). Every guest will be entitled to a £200 interim payment to help with subsistence costs which will be provided by the local council. Under this scheme people will also have access to public services, work and benefits. You may ask guests to pay a reasonable and proportionate contribution (according to use) for water, gas and electricity consumed or supplied to the accommodation or to any shared facilities. With self-contained accommodation, you should agree with your guest who will pay Council Tax.

This.

Ukraine is a fairly traditional Catholic country

Ukraine is a mostly Orthodox country. Only about 10% of Ukrainians, mostly in the Western regions which have seen little fighting, are Catholics.

This has made me reflect back on helping an African woman I met through work, settle in the uk and access healthcare, benefits and housing ( she did also have an EU passport). I was fond of her, but I was a bit put off when she told me she had quite a bit of money back in her home country ( yes, she was upper middle class by that country’s standards) and was worried that the DSS would find out as she was applying for various benefits. In the long run I am glad I helped as she was in a tight spot but the relationship was too one sided to endure.

Apologies, I had thought it was mainly catholic and am wrong.

Yes, minus the usual racism that would normally have reared its ugly head if the refugees happened to be black or brown.

Nobody forced people to host .I suspect many imagined themselves swooping in a saviours to help needy, docile victims.They didn't have the intelligence or imagination to understand the experiences they have been through may make them hardened, bitter and miserable.
Many hosts dont seem to have given any thought to the well being of their own children, and assumed they would get on.
It is a pity they didn't think a bit harder, these refugees don't need rejection to be added to their troubles, and these refugees could have gone to more suitable hosts

Just how much cling film are they getting through?
Joking aside, it's a shame that things aren't going well, particularly for the 15 year old girl. Do you know why she doesn't get on with your children? Are they resentful?
It's a particularly difficult age for her to be uprooted, and put into yr10 groups who have already started their GCSE courses. I don't know if her Mum could help you talk to her about it. There's some good advice on here, but is there someone else involved with refugees who could provide more advice and support?