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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not understand drag queens at libraries?

188 replies

MouseShoes · 27/07/2022 15:33

Just recently, there seems to be lots of news stories about drag acts reading books for children at libraries. I don’t understand what this is meant to do. Is it supposed to lead to acceptance as the children get older?

OP posts:
Smileyaxolotl1 · 27/07/2022 21:04

DramaticSunflower

That is the name of a drag Queen.
The kind of person who think is exactly the same as Dame Trott at a panto. And I’ve already explained the difference between the two very clearly. If you do a Google search of drag Queen costume versus a search of fame costume it will also become very clear why one is suitable for children and one isn’t.

Smileyaxolotl1 · 27/07/2022 21:07

MrMrsJones

Interestingly, Labour MP Nadia Whittome used the word ‘wholesome’ on Twitter when celebrating drag Queen story time after Stella Creasey promoted it. Twitter ripped her apart!

DramaticSunflower · 27/07/2022 21:08

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No I don’t think it’s good fun at all. But unlike you I think don’t it’s inappropriate for children to be exposed to men performing in dresses. I guess our boundaries are very different.

After your previous post attack about me about miscarriage, is really doesn’t surprise me you hope I don’t have kids. I hope you’re proud of your attack on me.

Smileyaxolotl1 · 27/07/2022 21:12

Boxowine

I get what you are saying but I’m not sure how much you’ve read about this. Things like the ‘love is love’ campaign- a lot of it seems to be suggesting lowering the age of consent in an insidious way. Peter Tatchell certainly has.
There are large number of LGB people who are completely horrified at what is happening to Pride and the gay liberation movement they fought so hard for. They are angry that they fought so hard not to be stigmatised or characterised as sexual deviants but in putting fetishes and furries under the pride umbrella some people are deliberately linking the two.

LondonWolf · 27/07/2022 21:13

After your previous post attack about me about miscarriage, is really doesn’t surprise me you hope I don’t have kids. I hope you’re proud of your attack on me.

You have been disagreed with, not "attacked". That emotive, exaggerated language doesn't wash anymore.

Echobelly · 27/07/2022 21:13

I don't imagine it does much for diversity really, but neither does it promote paedophilia or inappropriate sexualisation for someone who small children will perceived to be a 'funny lady' or 'a man dressed up as a funny lady' reading a story.

I can see queens could be engaging storytellers and make it fun for kids, and while I get people's issue with drag and misogyny, I don't see 3 year olds thinking women are ridiculous because of seeing a drag queen any more than they'd decide male clowns make all men look ridiculous.

Drag performers (barring some egregious isolated exceptions that people manage to dig up and throw around as though they're the norm) do know the difference between performing to adults and 3 year olds, and will dress and act accordingly. And if it happens said performer does adult shows, your 3 year old is unlikely to be googling them.

DramaticSunflower · 27/07/2022 21:14

LondonWolf · 27/07/2022 21:13

After your previous post attack about me about miscarriage, is really doesn’t surprise me you hope I don’t have kids. I hope you’re proud of your attack on me.

You have been disagreed with, not "attacked". That emotive, exaggerated language doesn't wash anymore.

Musment have deleted my attackers messages so I beg to differ. How embarrassing for you.

LondonWolf · 27/07/2022 21:16

Musment have deleted my attackers messages so I beg to differ. How embarrassing for you.

Please don't feel embarrassed for me, I am completely fine 😊

Smileyaxolotl1 · 27/07/2022 21:18

DramaticSunflower

’attacking you about miscarriage’

No - I just pointed out that this is the name of a drag queen. The kind of entertainment you think is suitable for kids and is the same as a bloke in a voluminous skirt on stage called Dame Trott.
I think it’s disgusting that drag queens parody women in this way and have the name of a terrible occurrence in a woman’s life. You think it’s funny and clownish - you said it yourself.
If you were wrong and ignorant about dames and drag queens own it. Don’t play the victim.

Notimeforaname · 27/07/2022 21:19

The majority of drag queens identify as men and are men who enjoy dressing as a women or expressing themselves artistically through clothes and makeup.
They call themselves 'she' in the character but not that many actually identify as women.

If a child asks if it's a man or a woman you can ask the child what they think and if they say woman because they're wearing a dress/sequins/makeup etc then you can say that men can also wear those things (the idea here is that your child is suddenly aware that sparkles, makeup, feathers etc aren't exclusively reserved for just 'girls'). You can also say that they are a man and go through the above steps. You can also tell your child to ask the performer themselves who will probably have a child friendly response up their sleeves.

Personally I adore drag but I don't think the full drag experience works for youngsters. A lot of it is Blue. But the amazing costumes, makeup, illusions, quick change, hair styling etc is wonderful to look at and great for breaking the mould that it only belongs to women.

This is exactly how I think/feel.

Theres no room for anything sexual rude or 'blue' around children. I think we can all agree on that. But a man with make up on reading a child appropriate story, using child appropriate language, no problem for me.
I'd feel the same if it were a woman wearing make up. The clothes and the make up dont determine who that person is for me.

If they are good with children and are entertaining in a child appropriate way I couldn't care less what they wore.

Notimeforaname · 27/07/2022 21:21

And I also mean appropriate clothing. Appropriately covered. I wouldn't agree with men or women wearing skimpy or sexual outfits around children.

Smileyaxolotl1 · 27/07/2022 21:22

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DramaticSunflower · 27/07/2022 21:27

Smileyaxolotl1 · 27/07/2022 21:18

DramaticSunflower

’attacking you about miscarriage’

No - I just pointed out that this is the name of a drag queen. The kind of entertainment you think is suitable for kids and is the same as a bloke in a voluminous skirt on stage called Dame Trott.
I think it’s disgusting that drag queens parody women in this way and have the name of a terrible occurrence in a woman’s life. You think it’s funny and clownish - you said it yourself.
If you were wrong and ignorant about dames and drag queens own it. Don’t play the victim.

You are using a parenting forum to
make a mockery of miscarriage and normalise men in dresses around children. I really think you are the victim here.

SliceOfCakeCupOfTea · 27/07/2022 21:37

Theeyeballsinthesky · 27/07/2022 20:54

I’m not sure a man talking to kids about being a firefighter is massively promoting diversity though is it? Most ppl assume firefighters are male
a woman talking about being a firefighter would be promoting diversity

Christ it's impossible to win here.

Yes he's a man, but my post was in response to why can't gay guys with normal jobs be asked to come in a read stories etc to promote LGBTQIA+ rather than just drag queen.
He is bisexual and he read a story about love makes families or something. At no point did he disclose his sexuality.

spirit20 · 27/07/2022 21:47

One of the main reasons is to make children realise that rigid gender roles such as boys don't wear dresses don't exist, both boys and girls can do what they want to do. This is a message I think it's good for kids to get.

I haven't seen the specific shows in question so I can't comment, but drag and trans people are two very different things. Most men who perform in drag are not trans.

Yucca78 · 27/07/2022 21:56

spirit20 · 27/07/2022 21:47

One of the main reasons is to make children realise that rigid gender roles such as boys don't wear dresses don't exist, both boys and girls can do what they want to do. This is a message I think it's good for kids to get.

I haven't seen the specific shows in question so I can't comment, but drag and trans people are two very different things. Most men who perform in drag are not trans.

Except aida h dee likes to be referred to as she..this reinforces sexist stereotypes...and he is a big advocate of transgender ideology...pushing the idea a person can change sex.

Thewigglyone · 27/07/2022 22:01

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namechange7654 · 27/07/2022 22:03

Gay men, trans women and drag Queens are not all paedophiles, and it is genuinely "phobic" to assume they all are.

But it has been shown time and again that actual paedophiles will persist in seeking access to young children. Catholic priests are not all paedophiles, but a huge number of paedophiles have historically been drawn to the church, for example.

I can see that DQST could potentially be perfectly harmless. BUT everyone involved has to face up to the POSSIBILITY that such performers may have a more sinister motive for accessing children, and apply all standard safeguarding procedures as normal. And if anything at all "feels off" then it should never be dismissed as "internalised bigotry" or some such bullshit.

Yucca78 · 27/07/2022 22:05

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I doubt it has much impact and in any case there are better ways to do that.

Snowraingain · 27/07/2022 22:12

I agree. It’s mad and I wouldn’t take my kids to a drag library thing. But this has nothing to do with what the protesters said. I don’t like it because it’s misogynistic and nasty. Every drag show I’ve ever seen has been about how stupid women are.
I wouldn’t mind someone dressing up as a character if it was relevant to the book. But I don’t feel the need to protest.

StarlingsInTheRoof · 27/07/2022 22:17

Really doesn't bother me. Don't see why it is any different to the pantomime dame, which is considered to be good family entertainment. I remember thinking two Ronnie's and Allo Allo were great back in the 80's, the double entendre went straight over my head as they were supposed to.

Boxowine · 27/07/2022 22:42

@Smileyaxolotl1 I've read a great deal about this, there's plenty on FWR but that board, like much of right wing USA has really pivoted to the LGBTQ is grooming children vitriol. I live in the US so I have to say it's a bit much. Here we have the right wingers who want to preserve child marriage laws and elected Trump president even knowing how sleazy he was with the stories about him backstage at the Miss Teen USA pageants. This is an election year for us so I feel like the rhetoric has really been amped up. This particular bogeyman is an oldie but a goodie. Why mess with a classic.

I don't really think drag and kids mix very well, that's just me. I'm an old. The youngs will be doing things differently and change is hard for people, very threatening.

It would be nice to see people really looking at CSA, I think a lot of people are in denial about who's doing it. It would be easier if all the abusers wore wigs and glitter, easier to pick them out. Instead we need to listen to victims and not be afraid to make an example of the powerful.

Feel free to send Randy Andy over any day now. Maybe the library protestors still have their signs. They can picket Buckingham Palace next week.

Cait73 · 28/07/2022 08:52

Drag isn't my thing but I've nothing against it and I certainly won't be protesting; each to their own 🤷🏼‍♀️

I'm not convinced children "need" to be exposed to drag but I'm not frightened or upset by it

People really need to be more tolerant, accepting and kind

Do no harm is my motto - this works both ways

SusiePevensie · 28/07/2022 09:18

Posted before- but my experience of it was that a young man turned up in a princess frock and a shiny wig and read a couple of stories about rainbows and suchlike. It was sweet. This is such a daft US-right-wing driven fuss over nothing. It's like getting angry with Gardener's Question Time.

ThickCutSteakChips · 28/07/2022 10:02

So a drag queen called 'Flo Job' coming to a school and reading the kids stories is absolutely fine is it?

Just the same as a panto dame?

Is there a boundary, or not?