To think there is little incentive to work hard in the UK

[BeachTree]

Context. 30's, no kids, single, work full time.

Just a bit disheartened. I have never claimed benefits, or any type of support, I work hard to make sure I can support myself (Not disputing those who genuinely require benefits/support) I have always paid all my taxes, and national insurance. I expect by the time I reach retirement age, the 'state pension' may look very different to what it does now and may not be available despite having paid in my whole life.

I feel sometimes that I pay so much into the 'system' and get very little return and don't 'take' from it, whereas there are many people claiming every benefit possible, and constantly 'taking' from the system they don't pay into. There are so many ways to extract money from the system but only for those who don't work full time. I know someone who worked for about 1 or 2 year in late teens in the UK, then worked abroad for a number of years, during this time did not keep up with national insurance payments and obviously not paying UK tax as no in the country, also didn't pay tax in the country they resided in. Returned to England to have a baby on the NHS, now residing back in England, claiming benefits as a single parent for 2+ years, gets assistance with rent council tax etc despite having paid next to nothing in to the system. I cannot compute how this is fair.

For example the cost of living payment, people who claim benefits will get £650, where as those who work and do not claim benefits will get £400. The cost of living crisis affects all of us - perhaps more so the people who work their socks off and aren't 'entitled' to 'support' The system is backwards and not in favour of people who work full time to support our ridiculous benefit system. So many examples - ie. people get help with rent, council tax, working tax credits etc etc etc - however those who work get zero, zilch.

AIBU?

Jesus wept - isn't this just the same ill informed "opinion piece" the tabloids have been publishing for the past 50 years in varios forms?? It wasn't true then and it isn't now. How does this poisonous rubbish keep getting regurgitated year after year?

I agree OP, and get the safety net replies. But few stop to think about the rising national debt - June's deficit was £19bn, ie. Government/taxpayer spent vs tax paid in - and many just treat the system like a gravy train.

There is a lot of unfairness and selfishness in the UK, and blaming or criticising others rather than taking personal responsibility.

There is a lot of unfairness and selfishness in the UK
Most of it caused by a selfish and unfair government who care nothing for those struggling or ill, or those on low wages.

I don't think life on benefits is an easy life but it's better than nothing and it's better than a lot of countries provide.

I do agree that sometimes it feels pointless to work your arse off and feel like others are just claiming everything for free. However I'd rather work for what I've got and give my daughter a wonderful life - I don't think I could do that on benefits.

Any of us could end up on benefits and it should be there for people when they need it. However I feel that the whole system is totally screwed up.

I worked solid for years to save a deposit on a house, worked long hours and rented on the open market without a single benefit. Managed you save 10% for a mortgage and took out a 25yr mortgage.

In comparison my bestfriend refused to work- her argument was benefits covered her cost of living. She got a council house at half the rent I was paying. She now works a few hours here and there. She has just been offered 50% discount under right to buy. I find the system so upside down. Even she laughs that she “worked the system”

As has been said a lot of people who claim benefits work. We get child benefit and child tax credit. It's a combined figure of £1500 a year. We get this as we have an income of £25k a year. This involves DP working full time Monday to Friday and I work Saturdays and Sundays. We get very little proper family time together. Are we hard working enough to be allowed to claim benefits or do we still get too much? Genuine question.

I think the real problem is low wages. Business are making millions in profit while paying workers a pittance. Businesses should not be allowed to earn large profits if their employees are relying on universal credit to live. The taxpayer is essentially paying for these companies to earn millions.

Same applies with executive pay and bankers bonuses. We need a maximum wage as well as a minimum wage.

I do agree with the unpopular bedroom tax though. It's outrageous that people who don't work should have spare bedrooms while thousands of working people are living in bedsits or studios.

I think the choice in the UK is stark: be poor on benefits or work your arse off to get nowhere.

Either way landlords love you for enriching them daily - they don’t need to work thanks to you being priced out of home ownership.

Pension funds love you too. We won’t live as long as our parents as our living standards are so much lower, so they won’t be paying you back.

Finally, who loves you most? The government - believe it or not, thanks to stealth taxes, everyone in the UK pays tax at the highest rates in Europe whether they’re on benefits or not.

There is huge incentive to keep people working in the UK as the rich benefit so very much - but less incentive than ever for the workers to turn up.

It’s not just health insurance costs and copays in the US. You need to also factor in the Medicare and OASDI taxes of 7.65% of wages that Americans pay towards their government that is equivalent type of taxes to the NI we pay.

Absolutely.

The amount of actual benefit fraud is tiny, and in no way comparable to the billions of uncollected tax from non-doms, and giants like Amazon who we as taxpayers actually subsidise by supplementing their underpaid workforce. So their screwing us twice!

Don’t care about the rest of it, just tell me about the course in Conjuring 🧙🏽

Are you struggling, earning an income that doesn't provide for your basic needs and not claiming something you are entitled to, on principle?

Then you are, with the best will in the world, a twit.

Alternatively if you are NOT struggling, if you are physically able to work, have what you need and are motivated to work harder to achieve more - quit focusing on whats 'fair' and whats 'not fair' and thank fuck you have the ability to work and the ambition and drive to improve your life.

If we all focused more on doing our best for ourselves, and less on 'it's not fair that so and so has something I don't have', the whole country would fare much better.

If you think its unfair that I get PIP and WTC - feel free to take my heart failure, Ehlers Danlos, wheelchairs and shortened lifespan, and I'll have your reliable income and ability to run about and walk and take a shower whenever I like.

What a disgusting post.

Similiar place in life OP, I think its more than if we were to fall on hard times we have to lose everything we built e.g. house, any savings over the threshold etc before you get help and once its lost its incredibly hard to recover.

For me its the fact that there is lots of support for low earners but no appreciation that those of us just over the threshold to claim any benefit could where need arises be able to access support.

I'll take ulez in londonnas an example, they are now looking to extend it but those us in greater london need cars as public transport is not as good as inner London. I have to find £10k (min price u will now find for ulez compliant second hand car) to replace my car to avoid the fines but how as a single person with costs increasing cna I save that up in less than a year. Of course those on benefits will be given scrappage benefit but I could do with some help too.

Anyhow this will never change so I just can't be bothered to get annoyed over it anymore.

Are you a single mum? Are you even a mum. No. Well don't judge then.
It's very tough, expensive and no gravy train. If you must judge then blame multi millionaire Sunac who is willing to squeeze the poor.

It's easy for people to be dismissive of the OP and act as though they are superior because they say they are happy to pay for every man and his dog to claim benefits but it is known that the people for whom life is hardest is often those who work but are not high earners, especially those who are single and without children.
I do think there needs to be a re-balancing. It is too hard for those in genuine need to get the benefits they need yet many of us know people gaming the system (me included) and getting more than the genuine folk. The rich don't pay their fair share but the squeezed middle is squeezed ever harder. Something needs to change

YABU - the 'system' in there as a safety net. Think of it like home insurance or private medical insurance - you don't pay for it because you need it right now. In fact, you may never need it, but you pay for it just in case your house burns down or you need medical care for an acute condition. Ok, in that example you could choose not to have insurance and you can't choose not to pay tax. But the only (legal) way to not pay it is to campaign for change and get enough people to believe in you to vote you in.

Comparing yourself to those who you clearly think are living some sort of cushy undeserved life on benefits is madness on many counts - mainly because you only have control over your own life, not anyone else's life; and living on benefits isn't exactly living the dream, regardless of how it may seem to someone who has never had to claim.

If you're actually interested in how many people on benefits are working, and what being on benefits actually means (the definition has changed as different types of support have been rolled into Universal Credit) stats are available on the ONS.

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/universal-credit-statistics-29-april-2013-to-13-january-2022/universal-credit-statistics-29-april-2013-to-13-january-2022

In the interim, I would plan more effectively for your future. You're right to doubt whether the state pension will even exist by the time you retire - what are you going to do about it? Have a conrete plan involving achieving financial goals (I don't mean working every hour of the day, I mean figuring out what the sort of lifetsyle you want now and in retirement is likely to cost and steps you can take to work towards those goals). Begruding those in need of the pittance of (hard won) support available won't do anything for you or your situation.

I agree. Advocating forced abortions as part of eugenics against the poor on mumsnet of all places

A single person on Universal credit will receive £77 a week Universal Allowance standard allowance then housing support on top. Housing support from a private landlord is enough to cover a room in a shared house until age 35, then a one bedroom flat age 35 and over. Good luck running a property on £77 a week. The government set rental allowances are low, no higher than 15% below average rent prices for the area. In some parts of England they do not cover even the cheapest rent available.
Housing association or council housing is scarce across a lot of the country. A single person working 37 hours a week at minimum age will bring home £308 net. Clearly working brings far more money than living on benefits. The crazy U.K. housing market does mean less people on lower wages will be able to buy than 15 years ago or so.

If you have children and are claiming universal credit then child allowances, maximum 2 children, kick in. However, by the time all children are above the age of 3, a single parent will be expected to work 16 hrs a week, or spend 16 hours a week looking for work. When the child reaches age 5 to age 12, the parent is
expected to work 25 hrs a week and by time a child is 13, 35 hrs a week. So it is simply not possible to not work or not be looking for work unitl the child is age. Universal credit is set that working will always bring in more money than being on full UC. Up to 85% of childcare costs can be claimed when on UC. Also those who claim UC long term will have zero chance of buying a property and the measure of security that can bring. The longer a parent works less hours the less they will be paying into pensions and limiting chances of earning more with increased experience.

As someone said on this thread, wages are not high and have barely risen in real terms since 2008. Something unheard of in previous decades. House prices have risen so much less young people can afford to buy now. Whilst wages have barely increased assets such as housing, stocks and shares etc have risen much higher causing increasing inequality. I think this is a big problem but those scraping by on benefits are not those doing well in this economy.

The system does need to be looked at again. Increased use of people working 35+ hours and still needing to claim is a symptom of larger problems that have not been tackled.

I have huge issues with zero hour contracts for jobs lasting more than 3 months and the fact that the minimum wage is not enough for people to live on.

Also rent/house prices widely out of control and rising each year. 500k for an average 3 bed home in London is ridiculous.

Finally, childcare. Totally overpriced. Although people are not keen, I would like to see state schooling e.g. nursery provision begin from 9- months old in line when most maternity leave ends.

I do not think the working population is asking too much for a decent paid job, affordable housing and childcare.

I can understand where OP is coming from. I have no issue with having a benefits system for short and long term. However, it is frustrating seeing those who are playing the system. They do not show up on official stats as they are not caught. I do not know what the answer is as cracking down upsets genuine claimaints but now is the time to start discussions about the way forward.

but it is known that the people for whom life is hardest is often those who work but are not high earners, especially those who are single and without children.

No it’s not, it’s the second easiest life, the only life easier is that of single childless people that are high earners.

Mark Haddon sums up why I want to pay taxes

Yanbu. I have been in the same boat until a few weeks ago when I discovered I was pregnant (yay!) and will now obviously need to use the NHS during my pregnancy and to give birth. I live in Scotland and there are no private maternity hospitals so there is no other option available to me. Prior to this though, I had an issue a few years back that required surgery not covered by the NHS. I had to pay my GP £20 to write a letter to refer me to the private insurance consultant I was able to access via my employer health insurance policy. I just thought to myself, iv paid into the system since I was 16, I rarely visit the GP, I have dental cover, I don't burden they system in any way other than using roads and St lighting etc and I am not even able to get the medical care I need via NHS and yet instead of burdening the NHS with ongoing pain relief I'm having to pay for a letter for someone else to solve the problem. Talk about a double edged sword. I don't understand why you even need a gp referral for private care. It's a total waste of an appt.