To think there is little incentive to work hard in the UK

[BeachTree]

Context. 30's, no kids, single, work full time.

Just a bit disheartened. I have never claimed benefits, or any type of support, I work hard to make sure I can support myself (Not disputing those who genuinely require benefits/support) I have always paid all my taxes, and national insurance. I expect by the time I reach retirement age, the 'state pension' may look very different to what it does now and may not be available despite having paid in my whole life.

I feel sometimes that I pay so much into the 'system' and get very little return and don't 'take' from it, whereas there are many people claiming every benefit possible, and constantly 'taking' from the system they don't pay into. There are so many ways to extract money from the system but only for those who don't work full time. I know someone who worked for about 1 or 2 year in late teens in the UK, then worked abroad for a number of years, during this time did not keep up with national insurance payments and obviously not paying UK tax as no in the country, also didn't pay tax in the country they resided in. Returned to England to have a baby on the NHS, now residing back in England, claiming benefits as a single parent for 2+ years, gets assistance with rent council tax etc despite having paid next to nothing in to the system. I cannot compute how this is fair.

For example the cost of living payment, people who claim benefits will get £650, where as those who work and do not claim benefits will get £400. The cost of living crisis affects all of us - perhaps more so the people who work their socks off and aren't 'entitled' to 'support' The system is backwards and not in favour of people who work full time to support our ridiculous benefit system. So many examples - ie. people get help with rent, council tax, working tax credits etc etc etc - however those who work get zero, zilch.

AIBU?

Really?

have you heard the term “wealth disparity”? Have you seen how wide that gulf is? How it’s widening every year? How social mobility is worsening every year?

its not the poor bugger claiming benefits who are ducking you over, whilst you earn £35k pa, it’s those who earn £335k who are fucking up your life / finances. And they won’t be bothered about funding of healthcare, of education, or state pensions.

Benefits that are all or nothing need to be looked at, get a job and lose all your rent? Doesn’t make working seem worth it.

Whilst I broadly don’t agree with the OP, surely this attitude itself is part of the problem and what contributes to many peoples’ resentment? It should feel “worth it” to get a job because you should feel embarrassed and ashamed as a healthy able bodied adult to have other people who do work paying for your rent because you don’t think it’s “worth it” to work if it means losing benefits and having to pay for things with your own money.

Do you want to be on benefits really? You live in a rich country - you might not think so but go and travel around a bit and you will see the money you pay in tax actually pays for quite a few services that other countries (European) are lacking.

@inthisworld - having been through the PIP assessment I struggle to believe that someone with no disability whatsoever would qualify for PIP. If so it would make an even bigger mockery of the process.

A bit of perspective on how much you are talking about here. All claimants on working tax credit will be working or have a partner who is. It varies by area but as an example in Kent in April 2022 40% of claimants were working
assets.ctfassets.net/6sxvmndnpn0s/4Ehd4bgEjOrTnm2HDGqcbC/0f3efd8340050906129e6f9e7acee0de/LHA_and_homelessness.pdf
if you are very lucky all rent covered - much more likely in council or housing association which are hard to get. if you are single no children under 35 then in private rent will be for a shared house/flat. It is Local housing allowance which was based in the 30% lowest housing costs in each area but is now less than that.

assets.ctfassets.net/6sxvmndnpn0s/4Ehd4bgEjOrTnm2HDGqcbC/0f3efd8340050906129e6f9e7acee0de/LHA_and_homelessness.pdf

universal credit monthly for adult over 25 £334.91

two children both born after April 2017 - £489.16
The single mum in your example is likely on universal credit so will be expected to work when youngest is 3.
There are other amounts for seriously (not just too ill to work) and carers.

in most council areas in England full council is not covered except in cases of disability so need to cover from the amounts above. (not sure about Scotland or Wales or Northern Ireland)

www.gov.uk/universal-credit/what-youll-get

Context: now 57. Started work in'87 following a first class degree. Got onto a managers course in conjuring with British Rial. Moved to Notts County Council in tech support... anyway, in 2009 I became the global CIO for Sky / Fox International Channels... 6 figure salary. So I disagree with you.

@BeachTree Completely agree OP, If you work hard keep healthy and pay your own way you get next to no help.

Quiet a few years ago I worked my backside off, got made redundant took my redundancy, used my settlement package to pay myself through university. Had numerous seasonal jobs whilst trying to get a full time position. Paid my taxes and national insurance all my life and because of my seasonal work, the job center insisted I had not paid enough into the system continuously to claim in-between to claim and my partner should be funding me.

Complete piss take when I had paid in just under 2K + deductions each month in taxes and NI each month over the last 20 odd years previously.

Work hard get rewarded with bugger all, be a lazy git and get it all on a plate.

Actually, I like working hard. Sometimes yes I do get a bit annoyed by people that work part time just because they want to and get UC top up as well but really when you work there is always the opportunity for promotion and more cash. It is hard sometimes, but on benefits it is always hard all the time. A single person with no children gets some of the rent paid and about £90 per week-could not live on that at all. Yes some people game the system, but most benefits claimants do work.

I agree. I had a pip tribunal today, it was my first experience of claiming ^any benefit in my life (including (for OPs sake) any child benefits as I'm childless) it's been hellish and they forensically picked apart my medical records etc. Obviously I'm sure a few must slip through the net but there must be many man more that never get what they need and are entitled to as the process is so so hard.

Everyone going on about how shit life on benefits is.....I know at least 3 families of at least 4 people who have been on holidays abroad this year. Can't be that hard up🤷🏻‍♀️Yes SOME people have a genuine need but there are plenty that take the piss.

If you really believe you can live the same on benefits please quit your job for someone who wants it

You can get an interesting breakdown of how your taxes are being spent from HMRC (including the actual amount you are contributing, which I've obviously cropped)

Completely agree with this. Direct your anger at a system that makes it hard for parents to work. My friends with young kids tell me that childcare costs more than their mortgage.

I’m in my late 40s, never had kids, never claimed benefits. Then this year I had to have a major operation: seven hours of surgery, five blood transfusions, a week in hospital and more drugs than you can shake a stick at. The system is there when you need it - please don’t knock it.

Mean spirited thread. I worked all my life, paid No to support the ill or the unemployed. And l don’t resent any of it, it’s what a civilised society do.

I think the point is that a ft min wage job should not need to have benefits at all to ensure a basic standard of living, so there would be nothing to lose by earning extra money, getting promoted or another job, but the reality is that it can cost more and you end up poorer by working more (travel costs being one way) because you lose more than you actually earn.

If the lowest ft wage were already above benefits, then there'd not be that situation. As it is, people in ft jobs need benefits, food banks and charities to get by while the companies they work for make more and more money.

Most people are seeing this as benefits being too high, the reality is that wages are too low.

As well as allowing absent parents to clear off and pay bugger all towards their children - the tax payer has provided the extra income I needed to raise a child alone, it was nowhere near 50% that should have been provided by the other parent, it was enough to make sure she didn't starve, and I'm grateful it exists, I worked ft all her life, I fulfilled my side of the bargain (and more because I contributed more than 50%) by providing my share from my wages, the top ups were because he didn't contribute at all, and are there in the way they are because so many don't. Yet apparently I am the problem, the one actually paying for my child with mostly earned money and he's not even considered.
Sort that problem out and force absent parents to pay their share and then there'll be no need for people like me to get anything - no one wants to think about that though, far easier to slate me as the single mum getting the money.

You’re at best ignorant OP.

I know plenty of people who claim UC- not a single one is unemployed.

Stop getting your information from the Daily Mail and have a look at the calculator’s online to see what pissy little amounts the scroungers actually get.

As other posters have pointed out we all benefit from the tax that we pay in different ways. You’ve no idea what life holds for you- let’s hope if you’re ever in a situation where you need help you don’t find yourself on the receiving end of the ill informed comments on this thread.

Also many people work part time for the simple fact full time employment is very difficult to obtain. Not just students, housespouses or pensioners looking for a bit of pocket money. Look up underemployment, it's very real

The system is bonkers, employers get away with paying rubbish wages because
taxpayers top them up to a living wage. The tax credit system is a mess.

Ime there are 2 types of benefit claimants, those who genuinely need it, are working in low paid jobs & can’t manage or those with no income who have fallen on hard times through no fault of their own. Then the 2nd group….

dont want to work, have never worked, have no Intention of working & want everything handed to them & money provided.

I know many people in both these categories.

YANBU

Spot the Tory

You are vile

Why should we work hard? Because our ancestors weren't given land at one of the kings campaigns back in the day?

Don't buy into the bullshit of working hard to make other people rich. It's literally bullshit. Money doesn't make happiness, rich and poor people commit suicide at the same rate. I do what I love doing and I still only work to live. Working doesn't equal morality.

I'll be honest, I'm not finding it that difficult. I'm a qualified nurse who changed jobs and then became single while pregnant, before I found out I was pregnant actually and so missed being eligible for maternity pay. Therefore, I am currently on benefits. My full rent and a percentage of my council tax is paid for me. I then have approximately £1300 per month left over to cover bills and anything else. It isn't that hard a life. Contrasted to when I was single and working my 30 hours per week, which is all my trust was handing out to newly qualified nurses at that time, I'm definitely better off now, financially at least.

I do want to go back to work though, and will once my baby is 9 months/a year, I couldn't sit down on my backside all day every day, it would be soul destroying.