To think someone could have helped Sebastian

[Lozzerbmc]

Im so upset at what happened to this 15 yr boy orginally from Poland living in Yorkshire, whose mother and stepfather have been found guilty of killing him after months of torture that they captured on video. We’ve seen this so much in recent years and its so heartbreaking. I know these are manipulative monsters who are so good at covering up their abuse so it escapes notice and victims so scared they cant turn to anyone for fear of making it worse for themselves.

I wish we could do better, these are not cases where a parent has gone mad and randomly killed their child, its mostly prolonged abuse over a lengthy period. I know its all about money and lack of resources. It just makes me so sad. What could we do to stop this happening?

I know. Can't stop thinking about him- it's heartbreaking.
No answers I'm afraid.

It’s horrible. The answer is better social care, which won’t happen because it’s too expensive.

I don't know enough about it, but I heard his school headteacher interviewed yesterday paying tribute to the boy. How was this terrible abuse allowed to happen and why was it not noticed?

Truly horrifying. I’m also a bit aghast that this happened not far from me yet I don’t remember hearing anything about it last year.

That poor boy.

I agree but I think this case was never even flagged to SS.
A teacher said they had their suspisions but there was no disclosure or evident bruising. I don't know what the answer is but these stories break my heart.

Someone on here posted recently that she was worried about a child living near her. A good proportion of the replies advised her to "keep her beak out", and said it was none of her business. Thats exactly how awful things happen to children - people think its somehow interfering to alert the authorities.

Yes it’s absolutely awful, my heart breaks for these children

But. It’s interesting how many people say they would help the children in a heartbeat etc. I suspect the reality is rather different. Many of these children come from tough, broken homes and have behavioural issues (of course, likely brought on by the abuse at home). How many threads here say that parents don’t want to invite the naughty child of the class because of how disruptive they are?

i think it sounds very romantic to say “I wish I could have helped” but honestly how much does anyone look that closely to home and think to invite over the child with the grubby clothes who doesn’t have many other friends and behavioural issues etc etc?

it’s very easy to look the other way and then have a hero complex after it’s too late

I agree that many people need to reframe what they do if they have any suspicions that children are being abused.

The thread about the neighbour's child recently had a number of posters saying don't report unless you know a child is being abused which is not what you should do. There were some posters falling over themselves to tell the OP to mind her own business.

You're so right. Helping children from abusive homes is really complex and challenging, and most people stay well clear of the "difficult" children in their kids'classes rather than build bonds with them. This is evidenced all over Mumsnet every day (and I'm not claiming to be any better). The reality of it is, most people swerve that kind of trouble because we don't want the hassle in our lives. It's absolutely heartbreaking and an indictment on our society that this keeps happening to these poor children.

I work with "troubled" teens who aren't in mainstream schools. Often children living awful lives will get into trouble at school and come to us, when we will often get to the bottom of their troubles. Getting anything done about it is another matter mind.

Unfortunately, I can well imagine that a child who is quiet, withdraws and doesn't cause anyone any bother wouldn't get noticed 😥

There is already another thread about this
However he had been in the country for just ten months ,he was 15 so in year 10 ,English wasn't his first language
Education was massively disrupted by covid in that academic year ,with lockdown from Xmas until March and bubbles bursting all over the place kids and teachers were being sent home left ,right and centre
It's an absolutely tragic case but realisticly he wasn't at school very long at all.

“Someone on here posted recently that she was worried about a child living near her. A good proportion of the replies advised her to "keep her beak out", and said it was none of her business. Thats exactly how awful things happen to children”

^Yes this.

Agree with the pp who've said that although it's easy to emote, and wish 'someone' could have some 'something,' what exactly do you mean?

-the boy had been in the U.K. about 10 months, during a period when covid would have had an impact on school, no doubt with key staff off sick, some learning being remote
-english wasn't his first language
-he showed no physical signs of abuse
-teachers reported he was shy and quiet but with a good sense of humour and was becoming more confident. imagine it can be quite difficult to know how far someone is naturally quiet when they're living in a country which is foreign to them
-as I recall, his teacher who taught him for additional english, asked him outright if he was ok after she'd seen his stepfather speaking to him and being quite strict. He said he was fine

Just exactly what do you expect people to have done? Can you imagine the outcry if a teacher or other professional started reporting a 15 year old young person to social services just on a whim, when the young person has said they're fine?

Of course, Sebastian wasn't fine, and he may well have been scared to admit the truth. Or maybe he didn't even recognise it as abuse... It was clearly all dressed up as 'tough love' and disciplining him for his own benefit

It's a horrific crime but let's be clear: the responsibility lies with the perpetrators alone. This wasn't a case of incompetence by any professional involved with Sebastian. Emoting about it doesn't help. The much harder question is how does society propose to manage this sort of scenario where there is no evidence of abuse?

The school had suspicions and had noted it internally but it hadn't met the threshold for social services to be involved (who are over-stretched already)
And agree there is an attitude of MYOB if anyone has suspicions about a neighbour/child.

The person who should have protected him is his mother and she was complicit in it.
It's heartbreaking.

I think thats right, people may say they would help but in reality don’t want to get involved or they have just a feeling with no evidence so are unsure. I wonder if there was a well known number to call to report suspicions i.e. if it was made easier people would make these reports more?

We need to go back to School Nurses holding weekly drop-ins in high schools.

I can understand the school not knowing if he was hiding it, but I can't really understand how the neighbours didn't hear something.

This is such a strange and shocking story. This isn't a baby who can't tell, it's a teenager. Someone must have noticed he had bruises, did he have friends? Play sports? PE at school? I can't get my head around it. It's heartbreaking.

@missdemeanors yes you are totally right

Also people need to remember that this was a 15 year old boy ,OK he looked small for his age but he was 15 ,people might get involved if they suspect small children are being abused ,not so much if they hear shouting and angry voices with teenagers

Maybe not he wasn't in school very long at all between starting in October, Xmas lockdown and all the other disruption, s caused by covid it's easy to see how he could have slipped through the net

As others have said he wouldn’t have been at school for long with Covid and all the lockdowns. There was little time in reality for people to see and he said he was fine when asked but clearly there was some concern. I just cant get my ahead around it. Utterly tragic.

I was just about to say the same.

We’ve retreated into our individual bubbles and if we pop our heads out we’re told to “keep your beak out”.

Its the same reason a woman lay dead on her sofa for two years and nobody noticed. It’s heartbreaking.

Of course, covid. I hadn't connected that. Bloody awful. Closing the schools was such a disaster.

@UrsulaPandress a child is killed by their parents once a week in the UK, sadly they don’t all make the news.
more investment in services for children, a government that actually valued childrens lives