To think someone could have helped Sebastian

[Lozzerbmc]

Im so upset at what happened to this 15 yr boy orginally from Poland living in Yorkshire, whose mother and stepfather have been found guilty of killing him after months of torture that they captured on video. We’ve seen this so much in recent years and its so heartbreaking. I know these are manipulative monsters who are so good at covering up their abuse so it escapes notice and victims so scared they cant turn to anyone for fear of making it worse for themselves.

I wish we could do better, these are not cases where a parent has gone mad and randomly killed their child, its mostly prolonged abuse over a lengthy period. I know its all about money and lack of resources. It just makes me so sad. What could we do to stop this happening?

There's definitely something not right in society because we see this over and over and every time are assured lessons will be learnt. They never are. Even when there's repeated contact with police, social services, doctors etc. I just don't understand it.

Possibly because it raises some uncomfortable truths. If you look at it in balance rather than emotion there is a cycle that is perpetuated here. I think the point being made is that people who torture and abuse their own kids or allow their partners to do so usually come from damaged households themselves.

There's definitely something not right in society because we see this over and over and every time are assured lessons will be learnt. They never are. Even when there's repeated contact with police, social services, doctors etc. I just don't understand it.

Its pretty easy to understand tbh, you can learn all the lessons in the world but if you don’t resource services, if you understaff social work, expect teachers to pick up the slack while also constantly changing goal posts in school, if you fail to invest properly in mental health services, don’t provide a decent standard of living, stigmatise immigrants and asylum seekers this is what you get, over and over again.

Often true, but large numbers of children from damaged households grow up controling their damage and do the absolute opposite of tortureing and abusing their children because they are so aware of the damage of being on the recieving end.
However the stigma that follows through life makes those parents cautious of authority and keep their heads down.

People have made the point that Sebastian said he was OK when asked.
When you have been brought up to believe that someone else is the center of the universe, and far more important than you, and you are lucky to be tolerated by them, or even alive, often the fear of being removed, and worse still being responsible for being removed, is far greater than the fear of what you already know, no matter how bad.
I made an active choice to be silent about conditions, what was happening, and what was being done to protect a parent, because I'd been trained from day one to protect them. I'd also been trained that the worst possible thing that could happen, was that I was responsible for their downfall.

Every time I lied to protect my parent, something right and expected at home, in my eyes I also became the bad child to the person I'd lied to. It traps children.
Accepting responsibility for it all was one of the few times I saw my parent pleased with me.
When my parent died I was passed into a different situation with different abuse, and took all that conditioning with me, which was of course exploited.

I don't have the answers, but expecting abused isolated children to be able to report or admit to their own abuse when they've been trained to do the opposite, isn't a reasonable solution.

I don't have the answers, but expecting abused isolated children to be able to report or admit to their own abuse when they've been trained to do the opposite, isn't a reasonable solution.

But it’s really the only solution I think. It’s awful but it’s like a grown person suffering domestic abuse. They can’t be helped from the outside if they cannot admit what is happening and take no action for themselves. But often the reason people don’t admit it’s happening is because they can’t see how they can be helped or feel sure they will be safe.
I don’t know if this is something that is addressed in secondary schools and part of education or not - but something maybe could be done to make teenagers feel more empowered to talk and feel confident that they will be helped and be safe. And know how to get help. Or how to help each other if they think a friend is suffering. Awareness needs to be raised. It’s obviously like you said so much more complicated than that, but some steps must be taken if it can help at least one child escape this horrible fate.

expecting abused isolated children to be able to report or admit to their own abuse when they've been trained to do the opposite, isn't a reasonable solution.

It’s awful but it’s like a grown person suffering domestic abuse. They can’t be helped from the outside if they cannot admit what is happening and take no action for themselves.
Its nothing like a grown adult experiencing abuse. Children are not just shorter adults!
Experts in abuse already know that if you tell a child once or twice they can disclose, it actually makes them less likely to disclose abuse. All it does its trigger the 'shut down' reaction. It puts them in a place where they are unable to disclose.

The fact is, this child's teachers were so concerned they asked if he was ok so something was raising red flags. The question is, how can teachers who have concerns but have no proof raise a safeguarding issue. We need to improve the reporting and investigation system.

I don't think the lockdown was the main reason considering that many DC in the past died in very similar circumstances.

If I knew of any DC going through beatings and cruelty of course I'd do everything to save them but how can you know when their life is kept from a closed door.

I would love the DC in these situations to be able to go to any adult but it isn't always easy considering SS are mostly shit in Ireland.

I know a similar situation where the daughter has reported her DM for violence against her and her younger siblings, the DD was returned to the mother after 6 months, the siblings were never removed.

I did contact SS ATT confirming the DM was on drug's while the investigation was ongoing, again they found no evidence.

Its nothing like a grown adult experiencing abuse. Children are not just shorter adults!

Of course not. But the tricky thing about teenagers is that unlike primary school children, they are grown up enough to be able hide and mask what is going on. They can put on a brave face. They are much more likely to lie convincingly if asked what is wrong. I’m that sense it is more like dealing with a struggling adult. Very young children will also try and mask but they do not have the maturity to do so as successfully and there are more subtle cues that teachers can pick up on. Teenagers are as vulnerable as young children of course, but much more difficult to help and support.

The fact is, this child's teachers were so concerned they asked if he was ok so something was raising red flags. The question is, how can teachers who have concerns but have no proof raise a safeguarding issue. We need to improve the reporting and investigation system.

All the SWs I know have multiple cases where there is documented, actual, frightening harm. They are massively over-worked and under-resourced. Investigating every feeling a teacher has that something might be off would be massively costly. And people keep electing governments who don't give a crap about it.

The other thing is that people hate the system, hate SWs, see them as evil. If they were investigating every family where there was a slight suspicion, it would be intrusive and traumatising for the innocent ones, creating more feeling to 'mind you own'. It might make children more at risk, not less.

I hope those two rot in prison for what they did. Poor Sebastian being sent to the UK and into a life of torture. I have no answer as to how to avoid this happening again. At 15 you would think he could have escaped and it is truly depressing that he must have felt there was no other place for him other than returning home each day to those monsters. What is the answer though? Do schools cover this during pshe sessions/assembly? I know in my kid's high schools they had sections in their journals with various helpline numbers but this boy must have felt so alone and helpless.

I think abused DC find it really hard to speak out.

I'm sure the abuser has terrified them about the consequences of speaking out.

School is the only safe space for them, it isn't always easy for teachers to identify DC at risk especially in under developed areas where many of the DC are not receiving a decent childhood.

Maybe use an icon like Mo Farrah whose life was saved by talking to his teacher.

I don't know the answers but too many DC are being abused and don't feel they can ask for help.

Apart from the fact that abusers silence their victims, I think part of the problem is children know there will be consequences if they are believed. They could end up in care and a parent could end up in prison. That's a lot to put on them.
I'm not sure teachers are the best people to deal with the problem, they are known to the kids and see them regularly, but lack one to one time.

It's interesting, I raised something with school about a child in my DD class, I had photo proof (she wasn't in danger but was a safeguarding issue), sent to headteacher, head of year and pastoral manager, got an email to say "thanks" and nothing was done about it at all...

You did the right thing to report the issue and I hope you wouldn't be put off from reporting again. It is very possible that the school did raise your concern and it will be logged somewhere. In our Safeguarding training we are told that all information, which on its own could be insignificant, can help to form a bigger picture, so you reporting will hopefully not have been a waste of time.

I'm not sure teachers are the best people to deal with the problem, they are known to the kids and see them regularly, but lack one to one time.

Me too teachers don't always have the time, there is literally no other trustworthy adult available for these DC.

I know a family who are under the radar. I have reported incidents myself, a blind person could see those DC are neglected and the older DD is regularly physically hurt. The school have reported concerns, other neighbours have reported concerns - the DD was removed from the home for a few months, she is back, lots of shouting again from the mother when she hasn't left her minding the younger siblings and gone off to score crack.

I reported as I saw the mother roaring into her DD face, her DD was frozen in fear - the mother is wild.

Social worker . Do you know why they were arguing?
Me . It wasn't an argument the mother is spitting shouting.
Social worker . Do you know what the DD done wrong.
Me . I don't think anything warranted her DM acting like that.
Social worker. Okay we'll investigate, they didn't take any further action only a phone call.

My report was probably the 20th from neighbours.

Their original investigation found no evidence of abuse or drug use despite neighbours, teachers, carers confirming DM is a crack addict.

I told the DD next time run to my house, I'll keep her here.

That kind of answer is so unhelpful though. The social working was asking for background information, not trying to work out if the kid deserved to be abused.

That kind of answer is so unhelpful though. The social working was asking for background information, not trying to work out if the kid deserved to be abused.

I understand why you would think that but the social worker who returned the call has been involved with the family for 5 years.

She has all the background information and was part of the team who returned the DD into her DM care.

It wasn't the first time I spoke to her - I know the school has been involved with her too.

I gave as much information as possible, they phoned the DM, the DD told my DD her mother was pissed off after the call.

SS rarely remove DC in Ireland before exhausting every avenue which can have devastating effects on the DC.

Domestic adoption is rare and DC spend years in care.

Have a read up on the Co. Roscommon child abuse case, it is one of the worse cases especially as SS were involved for years before removal while the DC lived in absolute filthy conditions and were regularly abused.

So why ask the question? Do you honestly think the social working was asking because she thought the kid deserved it?

So why ask the question? Do you honestly think the social working was asking because she thought the kid deserved it?

No I think she was being defensive, they got it wrong by returning the DD.

I don't live close enough to overhear so I can call the police while it is happening.

The incident I witnessed was a short distance walking from the school in public.

The tears were pouring down the girls face, she was shaking, her very tall aggressive DM was spitting she was so angry shouting in her face.

I tried to ask was everything okay but was shouted at.

I just hope that the DD makes it out alive.

The best thing you can do to help her is work with her social worker, and if you think things are being missed, escalate it to their boss.

Thank you.