To think someone could have helped Sebastian

[Lozzerbmc]

Im so upset at what happened to this 15 yr boy orginally from Poland living in Yorkshire, whose mother and stepfather have been found guilty of killing him after months of torture that they captured on video. We’ve seen this so much in recent years and its so heartbreaking. I know these are manipulative monsters who are so good at covering up their abuse so it escapes notice and victims so scared they cant turn to anyone for fear of making it worse for themselves.

I wish we could do better, these are not cases where a parent has gone mad and randomly killed their child, its mostly prolonged abuse over a lengthy period. I know its all about money and lack of resources. It just makes me so sad. What could we do to stop this happening?

We need to stop the idea that “it’s none of our business” it needs to be everyone’s business.

I got a phone call from school the other week asking about the bruises DS had at the time, I had no issue with answering the questions and explaining his consultant was aware. I would have had no issues if they had felt the need to contact the consultant or anything either. I know their was a perfectly innocent reason but that doesn’t mean they did.

I have recently registered a concern about a child with the NSPCC, it may be nothing but it may be part of a much bigger picture. Either way I couldn’t ignore.

This is really shocking I can't get my head around this!

There was a recent thread here where a poster said an 8 year old girl in her child’s class who was known to have a difficult home life was often rude to girls in the class, including the poster’s DD.

The poster wanted to have a party for her DD where she invited every girl in the class except this one girl. Lots of people didn’t think she was BU at all!

I saw that one it's quite ironic isn't it?

There have been so many cases lately where a step parent or new partner has been involved in the abuse and murder of children, and where the actual parent has either been just as responsible or at least complicit

Well the pop of the country is 70 million so roughly 8 million under 10s - it's not a lot . Though any child murder is tragic.
There are many divorces too resulting in many new partners.

Yes we all weep and wail but at the same time Tories are demanding Liz Truss so taxes can be reduced.

People need to realise that a society with functional services costs money.

There was only a thread a few weeks ago where most people wouldn’t help a child who had not got on the escalator with their parent for fear of being accused of being a paedophile. Most people are not willing to intervene.

Absolutely @SquirrelSoShiny

Well said @SquirrelSoShiny

It's always better to report but be wrong than to keep quiet and be right.

I'm still not sure what people are suggesting could be reported here though?
That a young person seems to be fairly quiet and shy? Not unusual, particularly when they've moved from a foreign country.
There was no physical evidence of abuse. When questioned by his teacher, Sebastian said he was fine.
What does anyone on here imagine they would have done differently?

I don't think Sebastians death IS about a lack of money or resources tho. School saw one incident where SD was nasty, but he said he was OK and safe. It didn't meet the threshold for reporting. There was seemingly nothing else for school to see because he had covid every tien SD beat him too visibly.
At most the neighbours might have heard something but normal teenage / parent arguments or being beaten to death - it's hard to know what they heard.

I don't think this one is a services failure so much as evil parents

Tthank you to all the school/nursery staff, support workers, social worker, guardians, legal and other workers working I. Underfunded systems.

Make it very easy for parents to access services in a non judgmental setting. The ones I come across on a helpline on low income are often desperate, not now abusive but I can imagine just snapping or seriously worsening MH.

I agree with this. There is a tendency for people to avoid becoming involved with other people.

I remember a recent thread about someone complaining about her neighbours wanting to chat with her over a garden fence. She called it 'respecting her boundaries.' It made me so annoyed.

Everyone in their own little bubble and not connecting with wider society can create the perfect conditions for this type of tragic abuse to happen.

I don't know if it's got worse over the years. Maybe. In the past it was more common for extended family to live in close proximity to each other and for neighbours to look out for each other and other people's children.

Nowadays it's all very much 'keeping yourself to yourself.'

There are some frantic posts on Mumsnet about 'a stranger touched my child's face' and how terrible it was.

I don't know what the answer is, if there is one. Someone suggested a weekly school nurse, but imagine how many parents would be screaming then about a nurse invading a teenager's privacy.

It's just so tragic that all the circumstances in Sebastian's case - being a quiet boy, no visible injuries, being unfamiliar with British culture, possibly not having a close friend, possibly not speaking fluent English, led to his death.

Exactly, and on MN where people are frequently told not your monkey, not your circus. Don't interfere, someone else will have it. You don't know what's happened etx

Exactly, it’s an absolute tragedy but there’s nothing that could have been reported.

Yes I agree added to the fact ,it was an unusual set of circumstances ,he was only in the country ten months and covid .

I'm also freaked out by how many of these abusers are filming the abuse. What are they doing with the film?

Realistically, I don't see what the school could have done. They had no signs it was happening.

One option is perhaps to have more support in place for students who have just arrived in the country and who don't speak English very well, to make sure they have someone outside of their house, even if a fellow student, who they can get advice from.

More work from schools about your rights not to be hit/touched etc., and how to report it if it does happen, might also help. But this is already in place in lots of schools. Furthermore, lots of students won't report it for fear of they might be taken away from their parents; they won't always see it as the best option.

Possibly the neighbours should have reported hearing something, but then again for all we know, the parents used to wait until the neighbours were out etc. before abusing him.

It’s horrendous OP. I still think about little Star Hobson most days - that case really affected me as I have a child of similar age.
Anyone capable of doing what these monsters did is rotten to the core and pure evil IMO.

Exactly what I was gunna say. Disgusting

I often wonder how many of the posters who say that they would have helped, or that the poor child could have lived with them have volunteered to be foster carers themselves. It's very easy to sit at home and look at sweet pictures of murdered children and imagine that you would help the child if you had a chance, but vey few people are interested in the difficult reality of it.

He must have screamed in pain when being whipped with an electrical cord. This was sustained abuse. It makes me very sad that the neighbours didn’t report them.

@toastofthetown agree. It's so easy to emote but the harsh reality is that damaged children are likely to be challenging and it's not simply a case of scooping up a cherubic child. And your post reminds me of something that really hit home to me some years ago.

It was an article about Baby P, and the writer was basically saying, 'we're all crying over this photo of Baby P, an innocent toddler. The reality is that if he hadn't been killed, there's a strong chance he'd have grown up to become an abuser himself. He might have fathered children and buggered off, or worse, abused them or entered into toxic relationships which damaged them emotionally.'

That's the harsh reality. It's a cycle. A child growing up in an abusive environment is likely to emulate what they've experienced.
There just are no simple answers but the fundamental issue of trying to break these toxic cycles is key.

And how do you suppose that would have helped in this case?

A teacher he knew asked and he said he was fine, how is an unknown nurse going to achieve anything any different??

i would hope that teacher let him know he could come to her anytime he needed help/an ear/an adult etc. I hope he felt people cared about him.

I've posted on other threads, so don't want to rest myself here.