To think someone could have helped Sebastian

[Lozzerbmc]

Im so upset at what happened to this 15 yr boy orginally from Poland living in Yorkshire, whose mother and stepfather have been found guilty of killing him after months of torture that they captured on video. We’ve seen this so much in recent years and its so heartbreaking. I know these are manipulative monsters who are so good at covering up their abuse so it escapes notice and victims so scared they cant turn to anyone for fear of making it worse for themselves.

I wish we could do better, these are not cases where a parent has gone mad and randomly killed their child, its mostly prolonged abuse over a lengthy period. I know its all about money and lack of resources. It just makes me so sad. What could we do to stop this happening?

I've wondered about classes added on to what we already have about body autonomy etc. So children know what abuse is, were they can go for help etc. I agree that we all need to report. In every recent case, neighbours and friends could give court testimonies on the abuse they'd heard and seen, but not reported.
It isn't going to be liked, but if the Tory government won't fund services then we need them gone. We need lower thresholds, dedicated teams to help immigrants/asylum seekers etc in different ways, out of school provisions etc. Every child matters got things right. I feel that in lots of ways we are going backwards. In the Logan Mwangi case, both children were failed. Let's end the 'boys will be boys', misogyny and double standards that exist.

They both need to be given a full life tariff. Poor poor boy this is horrific and happening too often

But what else could we have done children and staff were still getting sick even when schools were allowed to be open ,let's not blame covid ,let's blame the abusive parents, most parents managed not to turn into violent bullies

"Of course, covid. I hadn't connected that. Bloody awful. Closing the schools was such a disaster."

Even on here posters wanted the schools closed for longer. Some still want lockdowns. We've sacrificed a lot of children and young people.

"a child is killed by their parents once a week in the UK,"

When I was in children's services it was around four a week and those permanently seriously disabled into double figures.

don't report unless you know a child is being abused which is not what you should do

@NerrSnerr what should you do? Genuine question.

You report if you suspect a child is being abused/ harmed. Either by speaking to the NSPCC, social care or school/ nursery/ care provider. You don't wait for proof first.

He was actually killed during the summer holidays, the covid situation didn't help but he wasn't killed during lockdown.

A lot of the abuse happened during lockdown though

@Ponoka7 yes, I agree, as I said earlier, it may well be the case that Sebastian didn't realise he was being abused.

There's a tendency to associate teaching about body autonomy with stranger danger. And even though statistically sexual abuse is more likely to happen within the family, when it comes to physical/emotional abuse like this I imagine for a child/teenager it's almost impossible to know where the line is between what's reasonable and proportionate and what isn't.

Remember all this was dressed up as 'punishment' for poor behaviour/ attitude. I don't know whether physical punishment is outlawed in Poland- perhaps not, which makes it even more difficult. And most teenagers can be mouthy/ difficult/ lazy at times so if they're constantly being told the punishment is deserved and for their own good, then you can see how they wouldn't necessarily equate it with abuse.

Children can be so loyal to unworthy parents, it can take a lot of persuasion for them to admit the abuse.

At the age of 11 DN confided to me that her friend was being abused by her stepmother. The friend’s spineless father would do nothing. My first response was that DN should tell friend to tell a trusted teacher immediately. Shortly afterwards friend turned up at school with cuts to her neck (from stepmother’s nails). Her school shirt was rubbing against the cuts so they went to the school nurse for a plaster. School nurse was immediately suspicious, friend was denying any wrongdoing until DN was begging friend to just tell her, tell her. Friend then burst into tears and it all came out. Social services immediately involved and this particular tale has a happy ending.

That child was such a loyal little soul to her gutless father who was a comfortably well off, highly educated, middle class professional.

The school nurse was a star.

We keep hearing it time and time again,
When will it stop?
When will evil men and women stop moving their kids in with horrible partners and step parents.
when will people stop sleeping around and having kids, then moving onto a another partner?
When will people stop being so nasty and violent and can we stop them?
When will a neighbour of friend report something and be listened too?

but those who killed him mistreated him for months, he died as a complication from broken ribs i thought

Ok thanks. I think in practice the thresholds of suspect/proof/know are hard to judge but better to be safe than sorry.

It did but in this particular case it would have happened anyway .

Most people will not help. That is a fact. That's how the holocaust happened. People say they would, but most people don't.

I saw the thread recently where most people said to keep your nose out, to not get involved....

Read 'Ordinary men', a harrowing account of what most people are capable of.

When people stop being abusive and killing their kids that's when.

I cannot get over what happened to this poor boy. I can't get out of my head how much he must have suffered and how very sweet he looks. It's breaking my heart 💔

This .

Safeguarding is everyone's responsibility. I have recently called the police whilst walking past a house where a young person was screaming ( their young friend was stood outside - they did not want me to call the police ).

I could not have this on my conscience. I called the police . They were within minutes and told me I was not the only one to call .

When I got home and relayed what had happened to my family, although it was not said , I sensed a feeling that they thought I had interfered in a private matter .

I work with young people and safeguarding children has been drummed into to me ... we are their voice .

Another child who lost their life and Covid lockdowns and restrictions played a part. Was it worth it?

@girlfriend44 I agree. It's clear that some people prioritise a new partner or move in with someone when it's not in the best interests of the children involved.
Of course some step parents are amazing- not disputing that. But children are bloody hard work, teenagers especially. Having brought 3 children up (now adults) I honestly don't know that I'd want to be living with someone else's teenagers. And mine weren't particularly challenging.

There no doubt too many people churn out children with little regard to the fact that it's a life long relationship and that from the moment they're born, they come first. There have been so many cases lately where a step parent or new partner has been involved in the abuse and murder of children, and where the actual parent has either been just as responsible or at least complicit

I was going to say exactly the same thing.

Whenever a tragedy like Sebastian happens there’s lots of handwringing and ‘why did no one help?’

But there are threads on here all the time about hearing kids getting screamed at through the walls, or turning up at school looking grubby and hungry, and the replies are always to mind your own business.

So that’s how it happens, to answer your question.

He was killed during the summer holidays not during lockdown we had no restrictions at the time ,I imagine covid didn't help the situation, but sadly Sebastian moved too a strange country in the middle of a pandemic less than a year before he died .

I wonder how many people have ever tried to raise a concern with social services?

Our social services team locally publishes an email address, yet if you email them you get a bounce back saying the email is no longer monitored and to fill in an online form.

The online form is clearly designed only for the educational sector asking for information such as DOB - leaving certain fields unfilled isn't an option.

If you can't fill in the online form you're advised to contact by phone. Which rings and rings. So many children must slip through the net.

I’m sure that’s part of it.

But it’s also really important to note the massive increase in poverty in the UK, and consequently numbers of children under social care. That leads to a situation where unless it can be proved beyond all doubt that a child is at serious risk, they slip to the bottom of the net. So no matter how many children are reported, it is impossible for social care to save every one under the current system. It’s broken.

imagine if we hadnt had lock down?
unthinkable.

thing is what proof would you have to report his case?
i feel for the school and the neighbours