"You're in administration are you?"

[ImJustMadAboutSaffron]

Waiting for a train and a guy started chatting to me to pass the time. Told me he had a 51 year old son so he must be in his 70s. When he discovered I work at a university he asked me the question in the subject line.

I asked him what made him say that and he just shrugged. I didn't say so, but I suspect it's because I'm a woman and also his generation.

Unreasonable to be wryly amused/slightly miffed? Not the first time it's happened and always men that say it.

Not that I'm saying there's anything wrong with working in administration either btw.

In all fairness to the bloke, he's in his 70s. He probably hasn't worked for a fair few years and his experience of women in the workplace was probably Brenda on Reception, the girls in the typing pool, Carol the tea lady and the boss' secretary, Mavis.

If my Dad were still alive, he'd be 85 and would probably have assumed you were a 'clerk'.

They lived in simpler times when jobs were much more formalised. People worked 9 to 5 and had an hour for lunch and companies issued luncheon vouchers. Women didn't have the opportunities they do now and because they don't have personal experience of that they think everything is still the same as it ever was.

I worked as a PA for a long time and don't recognise the 'nice little wifey job' that people are describing. It was bloody hard work and long hours! I've retrained to do another job which would be deemed to be 'more professional'. I can tell you that my work life is a lot easier now than when I was a PA.

I think it can simultaneously be the case that old men can have condescending assumptions and that women in some industries have condescension towards those they perceive as less skilled in stereotypically feminine roles.

for what it’s worth I’m an admin at a law firm and outside of their actual job description some of the higher ups can barely get a train by themselves or open a pdf without you holding their hand. but I digress….

And these days at least at my firm there is an increasing convergence of the paralegal and admin roles. The main difference being in pay, likelihood of career progression, and respect… again derailing somewhat!

While I totally get your irritation at his sexist assumption, your answer was a bit disingenuous too. He asked what you do, you told him where you work. It’s a bit of a silly answer tbh. Why not “I’m a professor at the uni” or whatever it is you are.

OP has repeatedly said he asked where she works, not what she does.

It’s not fair to call OP silly when you simply haven’t RTFT.

I work in marketing. My misogynistic uncle seems to think I work in a marketing assistant level role. He tries to give me patronising career advice every time I see him. I am Head of Innovation at a large consumer goods company. I've tried to tell him this but he never lets me get a word in edgewise so now I just nod along as he tries to tell me how I should try for an internship at Proctor and Gamble.

Lol I work in a hospital (university) and people always say oh are you a nurse. They always look surprised when I saw oh no I'm a scientist actually but now work in management of clinical trials

I've also the title Dr and I've lost count how many times I've called places like virgin and they tell me they need to speak to my husband as the person named on the contract ... dr Flumpers ... yes that's me ... eeerr oh, sorry
🙄🤯

Try telling them you're an accountant at a univ

Try telling them you're an accountant at a university. No you don't teach accounting. You look after their finances (over 1 billion in revenue). Their heads certainly spin then!

Recently a friend who has moved abroad told me her husband works at the same Labour ward she works at in a patient/women facing role. I asked her “is he a doctor or a midwife”.

Being careful not to make the assumption that because he’s a man he must be a doctor.

people should be more mindful and not make snap judgements because of someone’s biological sex.

Agreed, same as saying I work in a hospital rather than saying in a doctor.

At my uni (northern city) the starting wage for a lecturer is 45k. Teaching is done by them and all levels upwards. Most academic staff are on 20% teaching 80% research contracts so would all be expected to do similar amounts of teaching. The university has an apprentice scheme where 19 year olds work for about £3 an hour in admin roles. Many of these stay on rising up the ladder.
The lecturers have of course spent many years on low or no pay to get where they are

At my uni (northern city) the starting wage for a lecturer is 45k

I need to come work there. I’m a senior lecturer and programme lead and I’m not on 45k!! 😲

Eh? What an odd comment. You must know that the equivalent of sir is ma’am or madam. So yes, if she’s being that respectful with male customers then she definitely should be with the females. Or call them both love. But not defer and be super polite to the man and then “love” the woman!

This. I remember a conversation when a woman asked " What do you do" and I said I worked for civil service department X. She then said "and what do you do there". I replied "I'm an administrator". "So what does that involve? What do you actually do?". She was trying to find out how senior I was which I didn't consider any of her business.

I get this all the time. And it's always men ....

First they're surprised I work at a university then they don't believe I'm an academic. I've had men laugh at me and tell me I'm making it up.

Apparently I don't look like an academic, whatever that's supposed to mean!

At a Russell group uni? It does vary a lot. Mine is RG, we also have a "new" uni in the same town which pays slightly more but there's also another "new" uni in a nearby town where the lecturers are basically teachers and the pay is accordingly lower. They don't have the research income to pay the extra.

That's what I earned as a senior lecturer and course leader.
I've recently taken on responsibility of an acting head role and earn just over £50k.
We're not paid the airy of salaries people think we are!!

Starting salary for a lecturer at my place is just over £30k

Ah yes I work in the construction industry and while they’ve come a long way I do always laugh at the presumption that my older grey haired male team members are my boss and watching them get put right…

And there might be more women than just me in a meeting as was the case ten years ago but they still expect one of the women round the table to make the coffee…

I would have said "I'm a lecturer at the university".
I am a scientist, I work from home; it's tedious many people wonder how I can do lab work from my garden office.

So I always say "I am an editor for a scientific journal, and I work from home".
Nipping all daft ideas in the bud

Could have been worse, he could have said something like "The University? That must take some cleaning. And at your age, good for you."

Somebody got it right in a previous message. You said you ''worked'' at a university which suggest you have an office/support job there.

A lecturer would have worded it differently. Just like a teacher would not say ''I work in a school'' but ''I am a teacher'' or ''I teach art'' instead.

Yes, it could be due to sexism and the expectation that women are in support roles (although we also should not look down on admin staff...) but it also could just be basic common sense.

Post doc salaries at my uni start at 33,000 and rise incrementally to above 40k. Research assistant posts get up to 32k, for which you don't need a PhD but many do have one. You would generally have several years as a post doc, and have to have written a lot of papers and got several grants before getting a lectureship. I suspect that these lecturers on lower pay are at non research universities where the career structure is completely different, because there wouldn't be the post doctoral researcher in between level

*Because women (especially young women) are always assumed to be in admin rather than academic roles

You'll often find you lose your title, which is something that doesn't happen to men. Very common in the media too. E.g., "Professor A (man), Professor B (man) and Miss C (who's also a professor) published research

I wouldn't agree with this at all. And I've never seen that in any media report*

www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20210216-why-do-professional-titles-actually-matter

theswaddle.com/why-women-academics-with-ph-d-s-are-often-not-called-dr/

qz.com/work/1763651/why-it-matters-when-people-ignore-a-womans-title/amp/

you’ve never noticed, therefore it doesn’t happen.

there was a whole thing with Dr Jill Biden not being afforded her title in the press.

a quick google will show you it does. Try the #immodestwomen hashtag too- a discussion on women using their dr title. Even on here, supposedly supportive womens site, many don’t like the idea of women using dr. Advertising your education is immodest, whereas advertising your marital status is something to be proud of.

I read that as him making a rye observation of the state of the higher education sector, with a guess that your institution was entering financial administration 😁