Would men just put their kids into care?

[MustdrinkmoreH2O]

Would be interested to know peoples thoughts on this.

since having my baby and going to a lot of baby groups and mixing with other mothers and reading these forums In can safely say a high proportion of men (not all of course), see child rearing as women primary responsibility.

Women tend to be the default parent in the events of splits and men having EOW or even just walking away completely.

So I was thinking, if women suddenly acted like men in this regard and literally left men holding the baby, what would honestly happen to a lot of children?

If women suddenly stopped carrying the mental load so didn’t book in any kind of medical appointment or arrange play dates or buy new clothes, what would honestly happen?

One of my friends is dating a single dad (mum walked out), but his parents practically raised the kids as he worked away. So still pretty much saw them only at weekends. However if a man leaves a woman with a baby, in normal circumstances she’d just find a new job where she didn’t work away, reduce hours of needed and use paid childcare. They wouldn’t normally hand their kids over to others to raise 80% of the time because they had to work.

So I’m really interested to see what a lot of men would do if the roles were reversed. If women literally just walked out or stopped carrying any mental load type stuff relating to the kids. Would men leave their jobs if required or go part time and claim universal credit?

Would the majority step up as women do and stop their hobbies, arrange childcare and extracurricular activities and basically fully give themselves to parenthood? Would they realise their kids need new vests, socks and tshirts or need a dental check up?

Or

Would they hand over their kids to grandparents/family members to be primarily raised or if failing that, put them into care? Would they do the bare minimum so kids are literally fed, watered and taken to school but other than that left to their own devices with no activities or medical appointments arranged or assemblies attended or well fitted clothes worn and basically be kind of neglected?

Be interested to know others thoughts on what would actually happen.

YABU - as many men as women would step up and look after their kids the same way single mothers do.

YANBU - unfortunately most men would try and shirk as much responsibility of child rearing sometimes even resulting in the care system if their were no willing people to become primary cater.

Sounds like you need friends with better standards in regards to their partners. And surround yourself with men that are actually men and not just cuntz.

This is a tough one!

Before I had DD I was adamant that everything would be split 50/50. There was even discussions of DH, as the lower wage earner, taking the maternity leave.

And then DD came and how most women feel about their baby is a bond that IMO can never ever be recreated with a father (they have their own bond in a different way).

From day one I noticed things like DH would just go to the loo without thinking about it, where as I would have to tell him I was leaving the baby.

This isnt to say that DH did not pull his weight totally, but its just....DIFFERENT for them.

TopGub. It is. And the women secretly relish in it, they focus a large part of their lives and personality around hiding behind their dc. They need to do themselves, their kids and their partners a favour and get some self respect.

I've witnessed this first hand with a family member who once made an unholy carry on because her partner had.brought ' the wrong socks ' .It's embarrassing to witness.

@Butteryflakycrust83

How do you know its different?

Why did you have to tell your dh you were going to the toilet?!

I think my dh would be pretty gutted to be told he didn't have as good a bond with his children as I do.

@PutinSmellsPassItOn

I once had a friend tell me she felt sorry for her other friends wee girl because the dad was taking them to a kids bday party

She was adamant he wouldn't be able to cope with getting her dressed or doing her hair.

Fucking ridiculous

I’ve never wanted children, but would fully expect- had I gone down that route- to do everything as most men I’ve known of have been absolutely useless with regards to childcare and rearing.

Maybe things have changed since my 80s-90s childhood (and I’m sure there are some useful men out there) but my father was utterly awful as a parent and husband and most of my friends’ fathers were the same, whether they’d left their families or not.

Looking back at my post, it’s evident that I hate men because of my dreadful father who showed me how not to treat people!

Women tend to be the default parent in the events of splits and men having EOW or even just walking away completely.

I think it’s just as much a female’s issue rather than just a man’s.
I think some women have quite a controlling maternal instinct.

There are numerous threads on here about a man wanting his child 50/50 or every weekend or to be the residential parent and there are many posters who think it’s completely inappropriate and that the child should be with the mother most of the time.

There was one not long ago about the teens wanting to live primarily with their dad now and there were many posters telling the OP to go to court or ban them from seeing him etc.

I do know some single dads and like you say most have a lot of input from their own mum - but again it’s the mum who is overly involved and says that he needs help etc rather than the men (that I know) asking for that help.

Nothing annoys me more though than when a man is looking after his own child either as a single parent or not and is labelled some sort of hero for doing so!

My friend started a relationship with a horrible man and the reason she liked him was because she said he was a good dad because he has his DD EOW like it was really rare - surely seeing your child is a given for most people.

Also my sister is not maternal but they both really wanted DCs so she had the babies but went back to work soon after whilst her DP was the SAHD and is still now the default parent but it’s definitely not very common.

I know two men had to raise toddlers when their partners went off with fancy men
fastforward, present day the children are adult and have a close bond to their dad
they aren’t close to mum. She missed all the milestones eg graduation, first job,babies. Sure the mum had a rare time partying and travelling unencumbered but the consequence is she has no relationship with her children.

Some very woolly arguments on this thread that simply aren’t backed up by statistics.

Anecdotes about individuals are interesting but don’t prove any trends.

Of course it’s our patriarchal society that foists childcare onto mothers! It’s crazy to argue otherwise. Childcare is seen as low-value work - just look at nursery workers’ wages.

Men, as a group, don’t want to do more of the unpaid work. As a pp said: if they wanted it that way, it’d already be that way.

@OddSockQueen

Of course it’s our patriarchal society that foists childcare onto mothers! It’s crazy to argue otherwise.

But no one is arguing otherwise

The men in my life didn't get an option on whether they wanted 'more work' or not.

They had kids, they looked after them. Including my 50s born dad and my 40s born fil.

If women choose to have kids with mysoginist men who have patriarchal values, thats on them.

I think my dh would be pretty gutted to be told he didn't have as good a bond with his children as I do.

My DH would say himself when our kids were babies that he didn’t have as good a bond with them as I did. I breastfed them and I could therefore feed them, comfort them, soothe them in a way that he simply couldn’t. He did everything he could - nappies, taking them
out so I could rest, play, stories, etc etc.

Now they’re older, of course he has just as good a bond with them as I do.

@NorthCountryBlues

I bf mine too.

It didn't make my bond better.

Do mums who ff have a worse bond because they can't feed/comfort/soothe in ways bf mums do?

If women choose to have kids with mysoginist men who have patriarchal values, thats on them

You don’t get it then. Society itself is deeply misogynistic. The whole operation is massively skewed. Individual men don’t come up with misogyny independently.

@OddSockQueen

I havent said they do.

But you're still arguing against a point no one is making.

It was you who decided I was arguing against you in particular 🤷‍♀️

Do mums who ff have a worse bond because they can't feed/comfort/soothe in ways bf mums do?

No, they just have a different way of feeding/comforting/soothing. Obviously when a baby is ebf (assuming no bottles) then no one can feed them but the mother.

There are lots of dads (and grandads) at the various baby groups our daughter goes to, there were also lots of dads at the toddler groups my son attended.

At rugby tots I would say around 90% of the parents are dads, at my sons rugby club again I would say around 90% of the parents attending are dads, at my sons ballet its about 50/50 mums and dads. At school drop off/pick up its about 50/50 mums and dads for the children collected by parents. Same for swimming lessons, generally 50/50.

I was a lone Dad for quite a while, I know three other single dads who are the RPs, I know two who have 50/50 and I know one who does nesting on a 50/50 basis with his children.

It looks like you need to choose the people you associate with a bit better.

@OddSockQueen

No, I don't think you're arguing with me in particular.

I just dont get the point you're making in relation to the context of the thread

Patriarchy/mysoginy is to blame. But both men and women seem happy enough to enforce it most of the time

@NorthCountryBlues

You said you had a better bond than your oh because he had a different way of comforting

So it follows that bf mums must have a better bond than ff mums too

Either that or bf doesn't make a difference to strength of bond

Well that’s not exactly what I said topgub. What I said was that I had a better bond because as well as being the sole feeder I could very easily soothe our babies, so I always wanted them when they were crying. He would gladly bounce them or sway them or whatever but it was much easier and quicker to just comfort feed them. For my ebf babies. I wasn’t talking about anyone else’s babies.
None of the ff babies I know were comfort fed in the same way, most of them had dummies. Unfortunately none of mine would take a dummy or that would’ve been a good way of comforting them too.

No idea why you feel the need to be so argumentative.

It looks like you need to choose the people you associate with a bit better.

@Simonjt stop being so middle class liberal elite. 😂

I new plenty of dads when I was growing up who would who looked after their children on their own at specific time due to the jobs they did as well as some single fathers. I didn't live in a middle class area then.

Now I do, and realise I know and have met plenty of fathers who look after their children more than the mother.

My son brought his daughter up when her mother left when she was a 9 week old baby.
He would rather have thrown himself under a bus than give his child up.
He never bothered with another woman until after she began university last year.
We managed to juggle childcare so he could continue working.
I have an uncle who brought all four of his children up as a single parent, his youngest was only four months old when his ex went off with another man.
He didn't bother with another woman until his kids were adults, he was too busy raising his kids and working.
I think most men would raise their kids as single parents if it came to it.

@NorthCountryBlues

I'm not being argumentative.

You responded to me first. Disagreeing with what I has said. And have replied twice, still disagreeing.

Why are you being so argumentative?

I disagree bf has anything to do with bond, especially as most women only ebf for a relatively short time

I’m arguing with the ideas on this thread that:

a) women are gate-keeping childcare
b) there’s no general trend for men to dodge childcare

both of which very much have been argued on this thread.