Would men just put their kids into care?

[MustdrinkmoreH2O]

Would be interested to know peoples thoughts on this.

since having my baby and going to a lot of baby groups and mixing with other mothers and reading these forums In can safely say a high proportion of men (not all of course), see child rearing as women primary responsibility.

Women tend to be the default parent in the events of splits and men having EOW or even just walking away completely.

So I was thinking, if women suddenly acted like men in this regard and literally left men holding the baby, what would honestly happen to a lot of children?

If women suddenly stopped carrying the mental load so didn’t book in any kind of medical appointment or arrange play dates or buy new clothes, what would honestly happen?

One of my friends is dating a single dad (mum walked out), but his parents practically raised the kids as he worked away. So still pretty much saw them only at weekends. However if a man leaves a woman with a baby, in normal circumstances she’d just find a new job where she didn’t work away, reduce hours of needed and use paid childcare. They wouldn’t normally hand their kids over to others to raise 80% of the time because they had to work.

So I’m really interested to see what a lot of men would do if the roles were reversed. If women literally just walked out or stopped carrying any mental load type stuff relating to the kids. Would men leave their jobs if required or go part time and claim universal credit?

Would the majority step up as women do and stop their hobbies, arrange childcare and extracurricular activities and basically fully give themselves to parenthood? Would they realise their kids need new vests, socks and tshirts or need a dental check up?

Or

Would they hand over their kids to grandparents/family members to be primarily raised or if failing that, put them into care? Would they do the bare minimum so kids are literally fed, watered and taken to school but other than that left to their own devices with no activities or medical appointments arranged or assemblies attended or well fitted clothes worn and basically be kind of neglected?

Be interested to know others thoughts on what would actually happen.

YABU - as many men as women would step up and look after their kids the same way single mothers do.

YANBU - unfortunately most men would try and shirk as much responsibility of child rearing sometimes even resulting in the care system if their were no willing people to become primary cater.

@top ASK!! Why should anyone ask the other adult to do housework and childcare.

@Phineyj

Maybe women should stop doing that too then.

Really???

Women don’t ask? Even if that were true, I’d still save my scorn for the person dodging responsibility rather than the person suffering as a result. It sounds a bit like victim-blaming.

@Nothappyatwork I have never seen a new father in 24 years of corporate life take more than a week of paternity leave and that maybe for various reasons financially probably but still.

Thats depressing but I also think it’s generational. My own husband had 4 weeks paternity and in our friendship group one had 3, one had 3 months, a few that only had the statutory 2 weeks added holiday on after that, a few took a month or 2 as shared leave once their wife went back to work when the baby was about 10 months.
I actually don’t know a single man who only took 1 week.

@OddSockQueen

How are they suffering?

If a woman chooses to take a years mat leave and then go back time or not at all, in what way do you think they're suffering?

If I died/left DH with the kids, they'd be fine, but he would make different choices to me.

He would work more & they would have to go to childminder/afterschool club a bit more. He would probably default to private school as tends to be more of a one stop shop where they learn to swim etc at school rather than you having to take them.

He would do all the essential stuff - he wouldnt forget drs appointments, bags would be packed for school etc. DDs hair would just get chucked in a messy ponytail though. things like haircuts would be less frequent - he would just buzzcut DS so it didnt need doing as much.

I’m talking about suffering in terms of doing all the work of parenting without any support. I think parental leave is a red herring here.

I have never seen a new father in 24 years of corporate life take more than a week of paternity leave and that maybe for various reasons financially probably but still.

Ok this is weird as in the last 5 years most of my male friends have taken at least 4 weeks. 2 weeks paternity & 2 extra. A few have taken 12 weeks or more.

I haven’t read the whole thread but just wanted to comment: I remember my friend (who is a psychologist) telling me there is research showing that the outcomes for children are poorer if their mum dies when they are little. I find that very interesting. I don’t know the details but thought I’d mention it here as it seems to fit with the topic

@OddSockQueen

How are they doing all the work with no support?

Do you think working dads do no parenting?

They're providing financial support at the very least.

And if women aren't happy not working/doing all the childcare they can get a job.

No idea in this case but are you suggesting that people who use nurseries, wrap round chkld care or getvhelp from grand parents and families are skipping out of their parenting duties? If so there are an awful lot on here who do just that.

Ok I think we’re talking at cross purposes.

My points have been quite general; I’m interested in the way men, as a group, dodge childcare. That’s what the thread is about.

I’m not talking about SAHMs or other pet topics of yours.

Jeez 70% of women think if they died their husband would put their kids in care

@OddSockQueen

How do men as a group dodge childcare?

How are women as a group left with no parental support?

@Topgub I have a job; many of my friends have jobs. Full time. My husband isn’t fecklesss; he’s pretty good. My friends’ husbands vary (some take the piss). But overall, the female partners do more childcare and domestica. We have to push and demand to get equal free time. Women in 21st century shouldn’t have to do that, but society is against us, and it’s a hard ride to fight.

Sorry haven’t read the full thread but of course men can do it. Some just don’t want to and it’s convenient if someone else does it for them. That is probably partly because of the role models they saw growing up.

same sex couples who are male manage it perfectly fine.

Are you deliberately being obtuse?

Do you realise you’re an apologist for male entitlement?

@OddSockQueen

No.

I dont have to push and demand to get equal free time. None of my mates do.

I'm just back from 2 nights away with my mates. Dh has never been away with his.

If women accept it then that's on them as much as it is men.

*My points have been quite general; I’m interested in the way men, as a group, dodge childcare. That’s what the thread is about.

I’m not talking about SAHMs or other pet topics of yours*

Sahm is relevant as generally it’s always the mum who gives up work. Several reasons, usually because the woman is lower paid and sees her salary as “not covering the cost of childcare”, with no thought to pension, long term etc. if the female is the higher earner it’s not as socially acceptable for a man to give up work, so more likely he will work and childcare will be outsourced.

with sahm usually she will pick up all the childcare and wifework in exchange for not woh.

the deal is he is responsible for earning money, she is responsible for children and running the home. So he will do minimal childcare, she becomes more familiar with routines etc, so even when he’s around it defaults to her.

society as a whole sees mum as the default parent. Women and men tend to consciously or subconsciously accept that. Many men will look to their partner to take the lead on parenting decisions, and women will do it, because we are conditioned that way.

it’s an observed phenomenon, already mentioned here, that nursery or school will nearly always phone mum if there’s an issue, even when dad is named as primary parent. Tales of female surgeons persistently being called during surgery, for example, because they don’t think they should bother dad at work.

ime most dads don’t actively “dodge”, but a combination of societal factors means they are seen as secondary caregivers.

🙄I’ve been away with my mates too. My husband makes an effort.

Do you not understand embedded, endemic sexism though? You have to actively fight it. The norms are absolutely baked in, and they work in men’s favour, by and large. Do you seriously not know this?

I can’t engage with someone who pretends not to know about basic, observable sexism.

You have to actively fight it

Yes, you do.

I havent said other wise

You seem keen to blame men for not fighting but not women

Yes, I blame men for not fighting. Same as I’d blame white people (myself included) for not fighting racism. That’s how oppression is overturned.

Again, how do you not know this? I’m out.

@OddSockQueen

OK

Bye

Black people generally don't collude in their oppression

Taking your annual leave at the same time that your partner /wife gives birth is not the same at all.
There is no impact on your career, promotion, pay rises for taking annual leave in most scenarios.