Would men just put their kids into care?

[MustdrinkmoreH2O]

Would be interested to know peoples thoughts on this.

since having my baby and going to a lot of baby groups and mixing with other mothers and reading these forums In can safely say a high proportion of men (not all of course), see child rearing as women primary responsibility.

Women tend to be the default parent in the events of splits and men having EOW or even just walking away completely.

So I was thinking, if women suddenly acted like men in this regard and literally left men holding the baby, what would honestly happen to a lot of children?

If women suddenly stopped carrying the mental load so didn’t book in any kind of medical appointment or arrange play dates or buy new clothes, what would honestly happen?

One of my friends is dating a single dad (mum walked out), but his parents practically raised the kids as he worked away. So still pretty much saw them only at weekends. However if a man leaves a woman with a baby, in normal circumstances she’d just find a new job where she didn’t work away, reduce hours of needed and use paid childcare. They wouldn’t normally hand their kids over to others to raise 80% of the time because they had to work.

So I’m really interested to see what a lot of men would do if the roles were reversed. If women literally just walked out or stopped carrying any mental load type stuff relating to the kids. Would men leave their jobs if required or go part time and claim universal credit?

Would the majority step up as women do and stop their hobbies, arrange childcare and extracurricular activities and basically fully give themselves to parenthood? Would they realise their kids need new vests, socks and tshirts or need a dental check up?

Or

Would they hand over their kids to grandparents/family members to be primarily raised or if failing that, put them into care? Would they do the bare minimum so kids are literally fed, watered and taken to school but other than that left to their own devices with no activities or medical appointments arranged or assemblies attended or well fitted clothes worn and basically be kind of neglected?

Be interested to know others thoughts on what would actually happen.

YABU - as many men as women would step up and look after their kids the same way single mothers do.

YANBU - unfortunately most men would try and shirk as much responsibility of child rearing sometimes even resulting in the care system if their were no willing people to become primary cater.

I'm sure men can and do have some hormonal fluctuations TopGub, but it's just not the same thing at all.

@OddSockQueen

No.

I don't agree with you.

Women do 'gatekeep childcare

I'm not making it womens fault.

Its everyone's fault.

Men and women's

@minticelime

Its similar.

Depends entirely on the man I should imagine. (Just like the level of involvement a woman has depevds entirely on the woman in question).
My brother was a single father for many years when his wife walked out on him and 1.5 year old daughter. He has been an absolutely amazing father. Continued to work full time but had his daughter every single second around that. Sweeping generalisations aren't helpful at all.

Until their circumstances have been tested I honestly don’t think you can answer that question and I would say that about men and women. @MajorCarolDanvers

@Topgub
The massive imbalance of childcare between men and women is not due in any major part on women gatekeeping childcare. There may be a tiny grain of truth in the notion, but it’s as nothing compared with the fecklessness of men.

Yes, the patriarchy is a societal force perpetuated by men and women too (hence your desire to split the blame I assume) but the patriarchal norms always serve men better than they serve women, and men (as a group) have had a lot more to do with keeping them going. Unsurprisingly.

So I’m not going to let men off the hook here.

Topgub - I tend to disagree, though I'm not arguing this makes men bad fathers. Just different. And it's absolutely ok to be different.

@OddSockQueen

I'm not trying to let men off the hook. But I dont think women should be either.

I see loads and loads and loads of women arguing in favour of not sharing mat leave or childcare.

Men for the most part dont even get a say.

You'd argue that's because they dont want it. I'd argue its because they've no idea they can

@minticelime

You can disagree all you like, the science says otherwise.

The arguments throughout the thread haven't been that men are just different but that women are better

No they love bomb a woman and get her to do the work 😁

Why aren’t men up in arms then, why aren’t they demanding their rights to look after their own children and take paternity leave ?

have we seen any online positions, have we seen any lobbying ?

I personally think that men think that women are better, maybe that’s lack of confidence on their part. The point of my earlier rambling post which I didn’t make and I meant to, was that I think men would by default when landed with the entire responsibility of youngish children would be to find another woman to step in.

@Topgub
Are you saying that, because women don’t want to share mat leave, they’ve no right to expect decent division of labour later down the line? Why is maternity leave the battle ground? Most men can’t breastfeed so they wouldn’t get on brilliantly in many cases. Women can have full maternity leave AND expect decent division of labour throughout child rearing.

I don’t know what you mean about the ‘science’ saying otherwise? There’s no science behind arguments around maternity leave, as far as I know?

@Nothappyatwork

Yeah.

But most of them get deemed as fathers4justice nutters

Some of them definitely are

The fathers for justice types tend to be separated from the mother of their children yes ?
i’d like to see men who are in relationships with the mother of their children lobbying to take equal leave following the birth of their children.

I have never seen a new father in 24 years of corporate life take more than a week of paternity leave and that maybe for various reasons financially probably but still.

@OddSockQueen

No thats not what I'm saying

Most women don't bf either. Most women have stopped bf by 6 weeks (if the stats remain as they were last time I checked)

Why wouldnt you want to share mat leave if you intend to share care equally?

I didnt mention science in relation that leave, that was in relation to hormones.

My boyfriend got sole custody of his kids when they were 2 and 3. They’re adults now.

@Nothappyatwork

I'd like to see it too.

I presume since pat leave has improved to the point it has, someone campaigned for it.

But in order for it to happen, women have to share both leave and childcare after

So it has to come from men and women

Because we can look after our own children and we can take leave, in the UK at least.

No of course not.

Ridiculous thread.

@Musti The question is though who raised them ?

The take up of shared parental leave has been very low. One has to suspect the vast majority of fathers don't want to take it. When it comes down to it, they don't volunteer to damage their finances and their careers.

Most of the examples on this thread of men behaving admirably have involved situations they didn't volunteer for.

Apologies- I misread the bit about the science.

I guess women don’t want to share the maternity leave because they didn’t share the pregnancy? They need time to recover in a way that the father doesn’t.

I’ve never suggested men and women are the same. I’ve only suggested that men are good at dodging the bits they ought to be doing. It’s not asking the world.

I think the issue is if fathers already are not stepping up with housework, then sharing maternity leave can simply mean he looks after the baby, but she still does everything else plus work.

My kids' dad would 100% find a way to make it work raising them alone if he had to, it would never be a question. When we split he was heartbroken at not seeing DS every day.

And the first 6 months is the hardest, why should fathers get the more fun second half?

@OddSockQueen

But women don't ask.

They're happy to let them dodge

🤷‍♀️