Port of Dover Critical Incident

[AndreaC74]

Why are we blaming the french? they didn't vote for Brexit and aren't responsible for increasing/paying for extra capacity at the French border posts on UK soil.

Stamping passports is what happens to 3rd country nationals & that adds time, a lot of it, when dealing with 100s of '000s of passengers, plus having recently been to France, i ve seen UK people arguing with French officials because they don't want their passports stamped!

The UK seems incapable of organising anything at the moment, the numbers travelling across the channel is entirely predictable and delays we are now seeing were talked about pre 2016, i remember seeing the graphs on how long the queues would be for just a few seconds of delay for each passenger.... all Project Fear.

twitter.com/bydonkeys/status/1551138151934066688?s=21

Hard borders at a ferry port where travel used to be very simple and it used to flow easily are very different to countries further away that we fly to.

It was obvious that the ferry ports were going to be more difficult to transit through when a hard border was introduced.

Go across Europe and people and goods flow across borders easily.

If there are land crossings with the EU and other countries, they are easier to manage than a ferry crossing.

It is genuine. I voted leave. It doesn't mean I'm not open to hearing about the changes. I will be honest, this just strikes me as being ill prepared. Whether or not they meant to do it, which is pretty petty. Or they really didn't realise there would be delays, which tbf I could have figured that out and its not my job.

Either way, I'd call it an own goal if they are trying to villanise brexit. It's completely obvious they are inept at organising and are grossly overpaid or they are just really bitter.

@Sometimeswinning

But shouldn't that be the case for every country/Continent we holiday to? Europe, Australia, America?? Why is this only an issue in France if its Brexit? 🤔

As @Bovrilly has pointed out Dover is a special situation/especially vulnerable....Entering France by air as a Brit is still fairly straight forward but the checks on passports do take few seconds longer per passenger than they used to.

Interesting you mention Aus and the States - I know some airports in those countries can be OK sometimes but at some of the major US gateway airports at peak periods you can get horrible delays at immigration and customs.

That's simply due to manpower levels and the time the Border Officers sometimes need to check the ESTAs, Visa etc. and then the customs officers pondering whether to check bags or not....

One of the things "we've" volunteered to do as a nation as a result of Brexit is to ditch a relatively light touch border crossing system and instead potentially subject ourselves to something more akin to the US experience, which on a bad day can be 😯....

It is genuine. I voted leave. It doesn't mean I'm not open to hearing about the changes. I will be honest, this just strikes me as being ill prepared. Whether or not they meant to do it, which is pretty petty. Or they really didn't realise there would be delays, which tbf I could have figured that out and its not my job

This is the whole point. Ill prepared.

I've been to Dover loads. There is limited space available - and it is pretty obvious to anyone that if a hard border with the EU is imposed PROPERLY - then there will be massive issues.

I take it some people have seen those TV programmes where they show border control in action in various countries. How long are you here for, where are you staying, can you afford to stay, what food are you bringing in?

There can be long delays at land crossings when that happens. We have just done it with lorries carrying goods and people travelling to the EU,

All predictable. This is what a hard border looks like. Well almost - as it seems that the French aren't asking each person why they are coming to the EU. Maybe they should? There could be people trying to sneak in to work or live there.

People in the EU must be laughing at us.

I am glad we only do Dover once a year. I feel for people who use it more regularly and for the lorry drivers stuck in those queues.

How is it an own goal? The French are fine. There aren’t problems in France.
they did have a delay on Saturday, which they’ve admitted, but the delay is primarily due to our insistence that we had to have passports stamped. That is in the withdrawal agreement.
absolutely mystified by the idea that it’s up to the French to go to the extra expense of sorting out our mess that they warned us about and get called petty and vindictive for not doing it well enough.
can’t see the EU rushing to welcome us back while such attitudes prevail, sadly.

Sounds like an excellent summary of Johnson's government to me.

This has just reiterated to me how controlling and bitter certain countries are. Cutting your nose off springs to mind. All those people wanting to come and holiday in France caught up in a bit of a shit show.

Imagine if Scotland leaves. England didn't bother to sort out an easy crossing (after years of a heads up) I'd feel the same way.

The French have enough staff, but are presumably having to scrabble for more, due to the colossal fuckup that is Brexit, now that every UK passport has to be stamped.No don't the media will be blaming it on the French rather than the Tories.

A drunk Nadine Dorries at Johnson last PMQs shouting boring boring at Sir Keir. Have you people no shame at what you have enabled?

Perhaps she had been drinking with Labour's Dame Angela Eagle? Quentin Letts of the Times revealed that Dame Angela called out first (to Johnson) -

Over the breeze floated the distinctive, mosquito whine of an Eagle (Dame Angela, Lab, Wallasey). “Who wrote this rubbish?"

At least culture secretary Nadine Dorries wasn't dressed like Labour's shadow culture secretary in 2020;

'I am not a slapper': Labour MP hits back at criticism of attire.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/04/i-am-not-a-slapper-labour-mp-tracy-brabin-defends-her-commons-attire

On the topic of travel delays - how is the Labour MP who (allegedly) had to taken out of an airport in a wheelchair after getting drunk on a flight?

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/charlotte-nichols-labour-mp-drunk-armistice-day-gibraltar-b965640.html

@Sometimeswinning it was the UK's choice to leave the UK. The UK created this situation. 100% the UK's choice. Why should France do anything but apply normal EU rules for a non-member country? Why should the UK get special treatment? There's nothing bitter about this. France. Are. Applying. The. Rules.

And this is why people have concerns about the intellect of Leavers.

It is genuine.

Ok sorry to question that - I thought it was a bit suss to ask why Brexit wasn't affecting travel to countries that are nothing to do with the EU.

Oh Clav that's hitting a new low even for you. Commenting on someone's clothes when we've had a Tory MP convicted for child sex abuse, another under scrutiny for sexually touching other men and another watching porn in the commons? Glass houses, stones.

Cutting your nose off springs to mind.

This is pretty mind boggling too - Brexit voters decided they wanted to give up freedom of movement and are now trying to blame the French for the obvious and foreseen consequences. Or did you think that border controls would only apply one way?

@Clavinova Trying to distract as usual

I wonder if you foresaw the disruption caused at Dover.

Have you even been there and do you understand the infrastructure issues there?

Absolutely. @Clavinova, you never did get around to answering questions on other threads on your views of a Prime Minister who appointed a known sexual molester to a position of authority, was very slow to withdraw the whip when he start molesting other men publicly, tried to blame others for not stopping him, and has still left him in place as an MP. Do you fancy commenting on that one now?

I think some people honestly did. I think they didn't even think of the consequences

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46142188

From 2018

Mr Raab told a technology conference : "We want a bespoke arrangement in goods which recognises the peculiar, frankly, geographic, economic entity that is the United Kingdom.
"We are, and I hadn't quite understood the full extent of this, but if you look at the UK and if you look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing.
"And that's one of the reasons why, and there's been a lot of controversy about this, but one of the reasons why we wanted to make sure that we have a very specific and very proximate relationship with the EU to ensure frictionless trade at the border, particularly for just-in-time manufacturing goods whether it's pharmaceutical goods or perishable goods like food."
"I don't think it's a question so much of the risk of major shortages but I think probably the average consumer might not be aware of the full extent to which the choice of goods that we have in the stores are dependent on one or two very specific trade routes."

@Sometimeswinning

This has just reiterated to me how controlling and bitter certain countries are.

Nope, it's just that the EU and individual countries have generally moved on from Brexit and they have different priorities, including priorities in spending, than the UK...

Have to say it does seem some in the UK need to feel that the Europeans are as continually obsessive about Brexit as they seem to be...guess what, they're not. They're not out to "get" the UK, they are not out to villanise the UK.

The Dover issue was briefly reported on some national TV in France, doubt it'll see much coverage in the coming days, and no French politician is going to expend significant amounts of political capital fixing the Dover problem...

The Dover issue was briefly reported on some national TV in France, doubt it'll see much coverage in the coming days, and no French politician is going to expend significant amounts of political capital fixing the Dover problem

I wonder if they have a version of the Last Leg or Have I got news for you ?

Lots of potential for amusement at our expense

Oh for god’s sake *clavinova’, this is really clutching at straws. At a time when so many Tories have been caught up in sex scandals, it is pathetic.

So France is controlling and bitter because they haven’t sorted out Brexit problems for us. Do you have any idea of the repercussions this has had on people who never asked for this and never wanted it? The EU didn’t vote for Brexit. They aren’t responsible for this shitshow. The onus should be on us to have managed this as smoothly and amicably as possible. Instead we’ve behaved like petulant brats, refusing to acknowledge what Brexit entails and then vilifying people when the issues that inevitably arise create problems.

The idea that Westminster would do anything to facilitate or co-operate with an independent Scotland is laughable.

If Scotland became independent and joined the EU, we would have a hard border with them. Customs and passport checks on the main roads into Scotland. Queues down the A1 . I wonder what would happen on the small roads? Would we build a fence across the border to prevent people entering ?

This says the opposite to me. Any other country, there would be teething troubles and they would move on. This seems overly emotional.

Take out Brexit and a pop in a normal response. Majority voted for it. It's done. Does that mean everything, which is avoidably difficult, should be?

I won't be using Dover. But then France would not be my choice of holiday. Maybe Brittany when my kids are doing their own thing. I'll be flying though!

this just strikes me as being ill prepared.

It is ill-prepared. By the UK government. The ones who wanted changes. France has just had to implement the third country controls that are in place for other countries outside the EU. You know, the ones without freedom of movement.

It isn't up to the French to make more changes at the cost of French taxpayers' money to make life easier for British holidaymakers as the result of a decision made by British voters.

Maybe the French believed what was being said by us in 2019