To be jealous my nursery teacher friend is on more than me

[Nurseryh]

I'm a nursery manager on £23,000; have a been in the job a couple of years. My friend is a nursery teacher and comparing wages, I'm shocked. After having a chat, we literally do the similar things. I feel a bit put off by it but I suppose I'm the stupid one for not qualifying.

What is it with the UK government and loving to have staff on the cheap? Why am I on so much less for literally the same job apart from the different name??

Yeh, not having a go but when you complain about jobs ‘on the cheap’, ‘on the cheap’ means letting unqualified staff like you do the job. This does not relate to how good you are at your job, which I’m sure you are.

It's not " fair" but that's what happens when you have the free market dictating your wage and a government salary scale dictating the scale of anyone with a teaching qualification. All you can do is get that qualification yourself and then apply for a Nursery teacher job in a school.

There's an even more bizarre anomaly with staff with the Early Years teaching qualification vs staff with the teaching qualification. One school I worked at had a Nursery teacher paid on an HLTA salary meaning she got paid about half what she would have done if she had a different certificate in her possession.

But your friend spent years qualifying. Why aren't you addressing that point? Childcare qualifications are nowhere near the same. She could also be asked to teach any year group in her primary school if needed not just nursery age. Child care professionals do a great job and should be paid more but if you want a teacher's salary you have to train to become a teacher.

Well put.

I have to presume @Jossfromtenko is just trying to wind people up, unless of course she means that the Early Years teacher ought to earn a heck of a lot more, than a teacher who is teaching young adults who are highly intelligent motivated, and keen to do well ?
No disrespect to folk teaching A-levels in any subject are, but this is one of the more ridiculous comment I've seen on MN in a long, long time.

23k is a shocking salary. Quit nursery stuff and do something better. Yes, all that warm and fuzzy helping the kids stuff is great or whatever, but at the end of the day you need to pay your bills, not be giving away labour for basically free.

When women quit these poorly paid caring jobs is the only time the government will pay attention.

When women quit these poorly paid caring jobs is the only time the government will pay attention.

It's alright - they'll just do what Liz Truss is suggesting and give families with young children tax breaks so they can afford for one parent to stay home with the children. Because that'll really help close the gender pay gap and encourage girls and women to do whatever they want to do...

I observe the children, we do circle time on the carpet, our nursery has started doing phonic input, we do our numbers etc.

All this ‘doing’ though… it may sound patronising but it’s little things like this that do indicate a difference - even though it’s just semantics, a teacher would clearly state monitoring development, organise circle time activities, teach early phonics, teach numeracy - key word ‘teach’. There is a greater awareness and consciousness of the bigger picture of learning that comes with having studied a teaching degree. It’s not just the day to day, it’s about what’s ahead beyond the nursery. At school the word ‘doing’ is one to avoid, and yes it does sound stupid, but if anyone talks to a teacher about what’s going on, the kids aren’t ‘doing’ anything - they are ‘learning to’…

Interesting thread - especially the private versus LA nursery differences. I had a look at the qualifications at my son's private nursery. It's says the manager has:
"a BA (Hons) in Pedagogy, honours in Preschool and Elementary Education, and Qualified Teacher Status."
I may be wrong but I don't think the other staff have QTS.

in contrast, at the local LA nursery (attached to a primary school), the two 3-4yr classrooms each have a QT in them and the headteacher is also a QT.

But the LA nursery only opens til 5pm and is term time only so not an option for the majority of working parents. Is this typical of LA nurseries elsewhere?

But the LA nursery only opens til 5pm and is term time only so not an option for the majority of working parents. Is this typical of LA nurseries elsewhere?
It sounds like it has additional hours provided by someone other than the teacher. Nursery classes attached to schools are generally only open during school hours and may be only part-time. They are education provision rather than child care.

@CaptainMyCaptain yes you're right it has wrap around care (pre 8-8.45am and then at the end of the day until 5pm) when presumably only the other (non QTS) staff are in the room. The 2-3yr room doesn't have a QT.

Interesting that there is a 2-tier system and that for most working parents private nurseries are the only option. This is all new to me.

I was a nursery teacher - but I’m a qualified teacher and went to university for 4 years to do so - I would expect a decide salary with a degree

If you are doing a job that you think you are not being paid family for the level of skill and experience you bring, then yes you are being a martyr. And in a free economy, by accepting the low pay, you are helping to keep the job pay low as clearly, someone is willing to do it for that so why would they pay more?

I’m an EYP in local authority nursery and I earn the same as you do. The sector is on its knees due to PVI not being funded properly for the childrens hours.

Its not your friend’s fault. We don’t have nursery teachers anymore. It’s EYP’s who have got their BA.

Well then why on earth don’t you just a 1 year PGCE or do it remotely part time and get qualified teacher status? Presumably your friend has QTS which means she can teach across the primary curriculum where as you work solely in nursery and don’t have a teaching qualification. Is there also a teacher in your nursery?
Of course she gets paid as a qualified professional and you don’t, because you’re not. YABU.

Not necessarily. My daughters went to a private nursery (based in a school but it wasn’t run by the school). The owner/nursery manager has been there for years. She actually went and did her teacher training qualification during the time my daughter was there so now she’s a qualified nursery teacher and also the owner/manager.

Ah but this is why there’s a range of qualifications for 16+. In FE colleges many staff are ‘tutors’ and don’t hold the full QTS so get paid on a different scale and conditions to those holding QTS who more than likely teach in a school. But the person teaching A level maths in a high school with a QTS qualification has put in the same level of teacher training as the nursery teacher with QTS.

What's the difference

Have you read the thread? I think the difference between staff in a private nursery and a qualified teacher in a school has been explained many times.

It’s not about the difference between private and public sector. It’s about your friend studying to become a teacher

@Jossfromtenko how is your knowledge of child development and early years? I am assuming you understand the very basic concepts of brain development and the stages in which positive interaction, learning and opportunities make the most difference and shape a child's life chances going forward? If not, can I suggest to you it is a bit late by A-level stage? Many years ago I worked for one of the biggest Sure Start projects in the UK. Obviously when the Tories came into power investing in children from pre-birth and before school age was seen as a total waste of money. I seem to remember that when they came onto power the Every Vhild Matters website had a banner saying 'this is not this governments policy'.

I work with vulnerable children and their family's. My LA have a child minder scheme for children under 2 who are not eligible for a free nursery place but for whatever reason are not having the opportunity to thrive within the home. The whole reason for Sure Start was that for some children, having skilled early years intervention aged 3/4is took late, they are already behind their peers and they do not catch up.

Skilled early years teachers will recognise where a child may have additional needs and if necessary get the appropriate team involved so the necessary the funding is in place so when they start reception to get the support they need and often be well on the way to having an ECHP completed. This will support them in education until they are aged 25 and too often I have seen children let down because this has not been done in a timely way. This teacher's observations and assessment form a key part of this assessment- every nursery I work with with properly qualified teachers in post are really proactive getting this in place.

Could you clarify why you think this role is less skilled than that of an A-level math's teacher? Also an early years teacher will be dealing with several other children. Many of my friends are secondary school teachers and had to undertake a primary placement. All comment that 30 little people wanting your attention at the same time is loads harder and no way could you set a task and they get on with it.

I am a p/t cleaner. If I were f/t I would be on more than you. That is wrong.

Surely nobody goes into childcare thinking it will pay well. Yes it's wrong, childcare practitioners are underpaid, but it's common knowledge. Teachers may not be well paid, but the information is out there to im find out what a basic starting salary for a qualified teacher is

Also, it's hard to increase childcare practitioner wages because that would mean increasing childcare costs... Then the parents couldn't afford to send their children to nursery so couldn't work... driving wages down. And around it goes

"But your friend spent years qualifying."

The friend may have done a 3 year degree in education, same number of years that OP took to get her degree. Of course, the friend has a vocational qualification that OP doesn't, but it's not a matter of number of years here, is it?

Why don’t you move to a private sector nursery?

And no, it’s absolutely not the job of Govt to clamp down on private sector pay - that’s not their role, or frankly, their business. It’s also bad economics - the higher paid the worker, the more tax for the Exchequer. Instead of a race to the bottom, join a trade union and campaign for better public sector pay.

Better yet, get qualified and/or move in to the private sector.