To be jealous my nursery teacher friend is on more than me

[Nurseryh]

I'm a nursery manager on £23,000; have a been in the job a couple of years. My friend is a nursery teacher and comparing wages, I'm shocked. After having a chat, we literally do the similar things. I feel a bit put off by it but I suppose I'm the stupid one for not qualifying.

What is it with the UK government and loving to have staff on the cheap? Why am I on so much less for literally the same job apart from the different name??

You already have a degree so there’s nothing stopping you spending a year to complete a PGCE then you can be a nursery teacher like your friend, problem solved.

Assuming your friend is a nursery teacher in. Nursery and your a nursery manager - having been a nursery manager before and having employed nursery teachers. You have every right to be irritated. Anyone who works in the early years sector is being massively under payed for everything they do anyway in my opinion!

But you're NOT basically the same. She has been to university and got a degree, then done teacher training, you haven't. More training usually equals more pay

I feel that education needs a shake up.
People like you are a godsend. You should be remunerated accordingly.

Society treats pre-school educators as childcare and not educators. Pre-school learning is so much more vital than Mainstream as pre-school educators don't seem to have the same access to External support that schools do. Basically you almost go it alone.

I've never understood this system... surely your toddlers require a higher level of involvement than a school?

Yet pre-school staff are paid a pittance and it's shocking.
To leave your baby or toddler with staff who earn so little is appalling.

As to your own situation, I think that your only solution is to do a PGSE , leave then work in YrR /EYFS in a mainstream school.

This is a situation that needs to be seriously addressed as staff , in nurseries can be highly educated up to NVQ3 and even higher yet TAs , in mainstream can be unqualified/ex mid day meals supervisors... and I say that with all due respect.

Another nursery could also offer more pay. Nursery near us in South West is currently offering £40k for nursery manager vacancy at the moment (it is a very large nursery though). A smaller one in same chain is offering £35k.

There are still a few Cert Eds around. It finished in 1980 and teachers could start at 21 then.

Not in Scotland it isn't. Possibly N Ireland too? Typical MN blinkers.

I'm afraid I agree with others. You're not basically the same, she has a qualification you don't, and is remunerated for it. If you want the same pay, get the same qualification

Again, not in Scotland. We've always needed a degree in your subject (secondary) + PGCE or 4 year primary Ed degree/ degree + PGCE.

Is your friend a Teacher ?

She's qualified and you're not. That's the difference.

Stop complaining, she is a qualified teacher, you are not.

Because she spent years studying to get qualified! If you got paid the same it would make a mockery of qualifications and make them completely pointless

Most nurseries use tapestry or a different app and link to the EYFS areas of learning. Those unqualified and uplifted can use it.
Teachers are needed in preschool and get paid more, you are already on a higher than average wage for a Nursery practitioner, so maybe think about those doing exactly the same as you on much less..

This.

I agree Early Years Practitioners need to be properly trained, invested in and paid a lot more. As do teachers. If their training was to the same standard as teaching, and their job the same (including the admin/ preparation/ responsibility etc) then the pay could be the same.

@bellac11 that's what I don't understand; I don't want to teach year 5 or 6 or even year 3; I'm an expert in the early years. My friend has never taught KS2, she's only ever taught nurseries But your friend could teach KS2 and the Head Teacher would be within his/her rights to direct her to.

I agree Early Years Practitioners need to be properly trained, invested in and paid a lot more. As do teachers. If their training was to the same standard as teaching, and their job the same (including the admin/ preparation/ responsibility etc) then the pay could be the same.

The OP's salary is entry level for EYP's here in local authority and they probably work less hours too. That's based on a 36 hour working week. I bet OP works more. A change of sector would help. She could apply for EYO jobs with her management experience and earn up to 32k without much change in what she currently does. (Going on local wages but it's by far the best paid area)

Totally agree with you OP. I work in a nursery and the amount of paperwork we are expected to do for minimum wage is disgusting… Childrens reports, observations, school transition sheets, planning next steps etc. There is currently a recruitment crisis in nurseries as no one wants to do the job because of pay and conditions. A recent job advert at my nursery and we didn’t have a single applicant. Until pay and conditions improve this will continue. I think in the end some nurseries will have to shut due to lack of staff probably already happening now.

You can't compare as 1. You (presumably) don't have a degree and a teaching qualification. I guess you have a level 3 qualification?

1. You work for a private company and they set the rates. Teachers' salaries in state schools are set by government.

Yes, you may be doing the same work but technically a qualified teacher can be asked to teach any year group within their school, so they need a broader range of skills and expertise and will have ongoing professional development.

If you don't like it, you can train to teach. My friend started as a nanny, then worked in nurseries, became a nursery manager, took a nursery nurse post in a school, trained on the job to become a teacher, became Early Years lead in a school, is now deputy head and no doubt will be a head one day. So it can be done!

We aren't called Nursery Nurses anymore we are Nursery Practitioners...

Anyway, why are you doing that as a Manager? Our Practitioners and Room Leaders do all that. Managers deal with finances and getting new business an dealing with staff etc.

And you've really answered your own question. You don't need a degree to work with children in the early years, it doesn't put you ahead in any way as it's a typically minimum wage job, unless you are Room Leader, Deputy or Manager and then it's a few pounds extra per hour.

You also dont need to do planning any more, we do in the moment planning and weve never recorded planning anywhere. It's not an Ofsted requirement for the early years, same as observations. All Ofsted want to see is how a child has progressed from starting to where they are now.

If money is important, then retrain as a TA, though Childcare Level 3 used to be transferable, then go on to do a Teaching degree and apply for an Early Years teaching post.

Truth is, you don't do our job for the money, you do it because you want to work with children and give as many of them the best start you possibly can and you will never make a decent wage doing so, despite the hard work and continuous training that does into the job role, which people choose to ignore when they decide to slag off nurseries and their workers.

Not quite sure your figures are correct.

A full time Nursery Practioner over the age of 25 doing 40 hours a week is a salary of £19,000 a year. (£9.50ph min wage)

£12,000 a year would be £5.76 per hour which would be above minimum wage for under 18s. (£4.81ph)

Unless of course those earning £12,000 are part time then of course they won't receive a higher wage as they work less.

And it's not a popular job. There is a huge shortage of qualified Nursery Practitioners, because of the low pay.

Definetly not a popular job! But hopefully when nurseries start closing and parents can’t find childcare the government may actually sit up and take notice. But then again pigs might fly ….

Excuse me but all Early Years Practioners are properly trained. Just because we don't need a degree.

We continually undertake courses for CPD, we have to keep on top of the changing EYFS, we know when a child is behind is with development, we know when they are advanced and can plan for those children to meet their needs. We can spot potential Sen children and know how to progress and deal with that. We have to have in depth safeguarding, fgm and prevent training (yearly) as well as first aid training, allergy training, food hygiene training and health and safety training.

That's just the tip of the iceberg. Every single child different and every single child has different needs which we are all trained to meet.

But yeah, just keep considering us unqualified.

No wonder we aren't held in high regard when this seems to be peoples opinions.

Pretty much like the parents who get physically and verbally abusive with us. After all, we are unqualified minimum wage workers.

Observations, next steps and planning sheets are a not a requirement, they never have been.

I work in an "Outstanding" nursery. Have been in this one for, 16 years now and we've never done any of that paperwork.

Even now with the new EYFS, Ofsted have designed it to make less paperwork so you still don't need to do it.

Observations are for the parents, they are not a requirement. Our parents prefer that we spend the time with the children, not trying to get pictures of them. We do Wow moments if they do something exceptional but nothing else.

Maybe speak with your lead and suggest this moving forward? Have a look at In the Moment Planning too. Next steps should really be done there and then, not left till next week.

@AbreathofFrenchair wow can’t believe you don’t have to do all that. I would love to just concentrate more on the children your nursery definitely has the right approach. We are told it’s a requirement from OFSTED obviously that’s not true.