To be jealous my nursery teacher friend is on more than me

[Nurseryh]

I'm a nursery manager on £23,000; have a been in the job a couple of years. My friend is a nursery teacher and comparing wages, I'm shocked. After having a chat, we literally do the similar things. I feel a bit put off by it but I suppose I'm the stupid one for not qualifying.

What is it with the UK government and loving to have staff on the cheap? Why am I on so much less for literally the same job apart from the different name??

@Skinnermarink Please could you say your qualifications and pay, out of interest?

How long will she be paying back her student loan at 9% of her gross earnings?

OP you are not answering the obvious question of why you don't get a PGCE so that you can work as a nursery teacher and earn significantly more?

You haven't got a degree and pgce though, like most jobs higher qualifications = better pay. Granted you are probably better at the job if you've done it for years but I guess it's on you to go qualify. I often wonder why the teaching assistants in my children's school/nursery didn't just go do their degree and pgce once they knew that was what they wanted to do, it must be annoying stuck on such a low wage when they would be more than capable of teaching a nursery or reception class.

You don’t have the same qualifications as her op she’s employed as a teacher as that’s what is, you are not, no matter how much you think you are. You chose this job and not to do the qualifications she has, you must have known the wage range when making these decisions,

I'm a nursery teacher and I know the teaching assistants who work with me probably think the same as you! However, I'm a teacher with experience in other years. When teaching a particular aspect I'll spend the time planning at a deeper level than I assume you will e.g. Phonics I'll regularly fine tune the groups, will look at best resources to use, different ways to teach to engage the children, coach HAs to help them teachings effectively. The TAs approach to phonics would be to use exciting resources, make sure children are listening but it wouldn't be in the same way I approach it.

I am able to ensure I'm extending the higher ones whilst teaching the less able ones and having high expectations of them. I fit in with reception, I plan activities with them and take part in who?e school events.

I have a subject to coordinate are that means I oversee how it is taught from N-Yr 6. This work alone seem to take up my time!

I am expected to be accurate, carry out interventions to support SEN children. I need to support TAs to accurately support them with these children.

When my own children attended private nursery I noticed there was a focus on care (quite rightly) and they were taught personal and social skills and some phonics\maths. due to new children moving up I felt they couldn't progress properly as things seemed to keep being recalled for the new ones starting. If you asked the staff though they'd see they did the same as me.

I disagree. I work with some great teaching assistants but they'd struggle with the worklod, responsibility and dealing with difficult parents.

I often wonder why the teaching assistants in my children's school/nursery didn't just go do their degree and pgce once they knew that was what they wanted to do,

Eh, I'm happy being a TA. The hours are preferable, less responsibility, less work. Being an actual teacher seems very stressful.

The pay is disgraceful, being trusted with their little lives and developing them and safely. Where as you can do some boring job like mine for about 10 to 15k more easy.

Haven't read whole thread, but OP are you saying there's no qualified early years teacher in your nursery? (At my child's nursery there is a manager and an early years teacher and then all the nursery staff who range from apprentices through to heads of room.)

Your friend has a teaching qualification and is not being paid more for the same role. The nursery you work in may not employ qualified early years teachers but many do. Many years ago now but my DC stayed in nursery rather than move into pre-reception at her primary because I had already had to move her once and there was certainly a qualified teacher providing the early years element from 3+ alongside nursery professionals. Most of the nurseries I alongside now also have early years qualifications teachers and also nursery staff have qualifications up to degree level in early years and child development.

Whilst I agree nursery professionals get paid too little, I am amazed that so many posters do not understand the difference between a qualified teacher role and pay and other members of staff. The fact you are a manager is not really relevant- your friend is employed as a qualified teacher in early years. Her pay recognises training, ongoing professional development, the need to be registered with the appropriate
appropriate professional body and a certain level professional accountability. If you want to be an early years teacher (qualified) and paid as such you need to undertake the training. I also take exception to your insistence that you 'do the same job' because you do not. I have worked as a qualified nurse and child protection social worker, both protected titles. In both roles I have worked with unqualified staff who have been amazing, have a lot to offer and are invaluable members of the team and make a huge difference. The pay is never enough and these were/ are skilled people, often with degrees, but they are not doing the same job with the same level of professional accountability.

I’m a qualified teacher, j was the nursery teacher for years and felt totally disrespected by other teachers who felt nursery teaching was nothing. I think all nursery staff are majorly underpaid and undervalued.
Its rubbish that the pay is so rotten but the teacher has studied to gain the degree. The nursery manager in my school attached nursery had set hours, she took her full lunch break and did not do any work at home. She had the majority of her day off the floor and was only on the floor when the keyworkers had their time out. I was on the floor the full day, I started at 8 with the children, up to half 4. I then spent my nights catching up on planning and all the paperwork the nursery manager didn’t have to do. I’m sorry to say but it really annoyed me when she would compare herself to me. She was more than qualified and had a great amount of experience but her day was filled with doing meaningless paperwork from the council which was rubbish for her but was also not that complicated.

At my school some of the TAs had degrees but didn't want to qualify as teachers as they didn't want the extra work and stress.

Less than nothing - she is probably now in huge student loan debt

you’re not doing the same job. You could qualify- 3 years of no pay (69k) plus student debt for 3 years (about 45k). So you’d be about 115k down so it may or may not be worth it

If you deliver the same curriculum you should be paid the same

I’ve gone from climbing the nursery ladder and into teaching for exactly this reason. Nursery work is grossly underpaid. Disturbingly so given the responsibility on nursery staff heads these days.

My days are much more intense but I much prefer it. Had to drop down to TA and then unqualified teacher pay in order to gain my QTS to get there though.

UCL has an Early Years PGCE which is 90% based in your current employment with day release for the rest. DN was talking about it to the teachers in the family. I’m sure other universities do similar.

Why don’t you go for it and get your QTS? As you say yourself, your job role is already similar so get your experience certified, get some pedagogical instruction, get qualified status and watch your pay shoot up.

You are HORRIBLY underpaid for your level of responsibility and it's importance in society. I agree. However, your teacher friend is irrelevant. She earns more because she is in a profession where trade unions have bargained with the employer to secure the wages of their professional members. Nursery workers do not benefit from this - there is no one negotiating on the collective behalf of nursery staff. There is no union and even if there were, there are thousands of employers. Teachers are civil servants. There is one employer (public sector anyway) - the government.

Anyway, why not work in early years in a local authority nursery. You should earn a lot more, have a better pension, holidays etc?

Oh no. The existence of academies is already eroding the line between qualified and unqualified teaching staff. Without QTS being the professional standard, there would be all sorts of negative consequences.

I agree it is frustrating for OP but she chose this, and she has options.

I know what you're saying, but a close friend of mine was a qualified teacher with 17 years' experience. She packed it all in four years ago and became an HLTA, and absolutely loves it - gets all the enjoyment of working with the children, during the hours of 8.30-3.30, Monday to Friday, term-time only.

Do you mind me asking what the figures are? It sounds like you are doing a very similar job alright.

In the part of Scotland I work in, they have actually taken nursery teachers out of school nursery classes. As those teachers were qualified primary teachers, they were then redeployed to teach at another stage. Shows how much early years education is valued here sadly.

I agree that nursery staff are very poorly paid (despite nursery costing parents a fortune!!).

However, I'm confused about your issue with your friend - she's qualified and you're not, but you're annoying because you don't even as much as her...?

Don’t nursery teachers have to teach a much higher ratio of children? 1 in 8 versus 1 in 30? So realistically the nursery staff will be paid considerably less. You’d get more in the private sector if you were a teacher as well.