To be jealous my nursery teacher friend is on more than me

[Nurseryh]

I'm a nursery manager on £23,000; have a been in the job a couple of years. My friend is a nursery teacher and comparing wages, I'm shocked. After having a chat, we literally do the similar things. I feel a bit put off by it but I suppose I'm the stupid one for not qualifying.

What is it with the UK government and loving to have staff on the cheap? Why am I on so much less for literally the same job apart from the different name??

@Jossfromtenko

Just ask an A level maths teacher if they would like to take a Reception class, they would run a mile!

The roles may not be similar in terms of academic knowledge required but the skills and knowledge required to teach a 4 year old are just as important, if not more so, than teaching an 18 year old maths.

One huge difference will be your friend will be responsible for more children. The ratio of children to a qualified teacher are far less. You will need more staff in the private nursery.

Childcare cost for adults are so high ...it's not that we don't want to pay!

The whole system is broken ...settings have high costs so even with the high fees can't pay huge wages ...add not being paid enough by the government for funded places .... everyone loses ...parents struggle to afford childcare...workers are poorly paid and nurserys struggle to make even a small profit

We need the government to seriously invest / subsidise the childcare system...may European countries do because they realise that for every £1 spent on childcare more money filters back into the economy (e.glre women able to work etc)

😄
By putting ‘teacher’ I’m assuming you think we don’t teach! I’ve met many people like you and it amuses me but is sad at the same time that Stage is seen as so unimportant.
An alevel maths teacher will have students who presumably have an aptitude for maths and an interest in the subject. You’re looking at the content and assuming that makes it harder.
Ive got twenty seven 3 and 4 year olds. Some couldn’t speak, use a toilet, sit at a table or play with friends. Others could speak with varied vocabulary, draw with details, become immersed in play and more, with the rest coming somewhere in between those two groups. I plan and teach to ensure each child progresses. Parents tend to be more in need of support at this stage as they’re new to the school.

I’ve had to cover classes when we’ve had severe staff shortages so have taught Year 5 this year with little prior warning but am expected to teach at the same level and quality their usual teacher would. I also coordinate a subject so have an overview of what Ks1&2 do in that subject, review what each year group teaches etc.I could be moved to a different year group. I’m also paid exactly the same as the Year 6 teacher! She came to Nursery recently and admitted she thought it was easy but struggled with how relentless they are, compared to her class who are independent.

Childcare costs for *parents

@Jossfromtenko clearly your qualifications don't make you any more intelligent. I almost became a biology secondary school teacher- my degree is in biology. My PGCE is in primary. Presumably you would have a degree in maths and a PGCE in secondary. Do tell me why your pay should be higher? I currently teach 35 children in Year 6. I have to get them through SATS. I have to prepare them for secondary school. I have EAL children who come to me with no English, children with varying SEN needs, and my class is varying abilities. You teach A-level so presumably they are all capable of learning at a higher level.

Why not move to public sector? In my area entry level salary for those with a basic level 3 qualification is 23,000 rising to 27 with experience. The level up with more responsibility but no over all responsibility is 27-32k. Senior supervisor staff 32 - 38. The higher level may have a teaching qualification or other degree but you can span the first 2 pay scales just from your level 3, experience and some in job training. Even an unqualified assistant earns close to 20k. The reason there is such a disparity is simple. One is a service and the other is an expensive to run business that needs to make a decent profit to be viable. The reason your friend earns more is because she's a teacher on a teachers payscale. It's a bit like an office manager or factory supervisor saying why don't I earn as much as a teacher - it's not a comparable job, it's a different sector and the others don't require a professional degree

Instead of complaining why not see if you can gain similar qualifications and upskill.
Also approach your employee and request a meeting comparing your job description to the tasks you fulfil. If you can show you go above and beyond ask for a new pay grading and payrise.
If you already have a degree you can complete a PGCE in a year and might get funding as a mature student entrant.
Use this a motivation to improve your situation not to compare and moan.

Yup there is very definitely a skill to teaching v young children no less than teaching older children or young adults. No more or less it’s just different.

It's not fair. Early childhood workers are grossly undervalued and underpaid. This will not change.

I had high hopes that when it was announced that all settings had to have a level 6 practitioner (degree/QTS level), and the 'Early Years Professional Status' (EYPS, now EYTS) introduced , pay would increase but of course it was just a way of paying lipservice to the value to 'professionalism' without guaranteeing any financial reward. It also allowed nurseries to employ a EYP/EYT rather than a teacher with QTS (so saving them money as the pay was not locked to the teachers payscale)

Solution: do PGCE Early Years; work in a state school or private school nursery.
Or work overseas like me and earn considerably more than in the UK, tax and Ofsted free 😬

I just can't believe an FS1 'teacher' holds the same status as an A Level Maths teacher. There is no way they are equally qualified or academic.

Would you trust an A level maths teacher to look after your 10 month old?

I'm much more picky about who looks after my baby and preschooler than I will be over their college teachers.

I just can't believe an FS1 'teacher' holds the same status as an A Level Maths teacher.

😂

Teaching a bunch of A Level students, some who are legally adults, a subject they have chosen to learn and already have a good knack for vs teaching a class of 3 and 4 year olds with varying emotional and educational needs, some who are still learning to use the toilet independently. I don’t mean to devalue A Level maths teachers but…

Yes they are. They just did a different main subject for their degree. You could even become an Early Years teacher with a Maths degree and a PGCE but it probably wouldn't be as useful as a specialism in Education studies including Child Development etc. I know a retired Early Years teacher with a degree in Classics.

Teachers who work with older children often say they would hate to work with younger ones and vice versa but the level of qualification is the same. It is often said that it is harder to go down the age range rather than up because teaching is not just a question of relaying the subject content but of interacting with and understanding the children/students.

Don't be ridiculous of course they are ,I have a child at a special school, he's 12 and working a pre school levels ,I can assure you his teachers have a much harder job than an Alevel maths teacher ,and they are very qualified, and deserve every penny of their salaries

I just can't believe an FS1 'teacher' holds the same status as an A Level Maths teacher. There is no way they are equally qualified or academic.
Plus the fact I have already mentioned a few times - a qualified teacher is a qualified teacher and an EYFS teacher with QTS can be asked to teach any class in the school. I was lucky enough to stay in Nursery/Reception during my 30 year career but many end up teaching different classes up to Year 6. Teachers with ambition to Senior Management are encouraged to teach a variety of age groups. My daughter is currently a teacher in a Nursery Class but taught year 6 in her last job.

Apologies for repeating all this.

YABU. If your friend is an EYFS teacher at a primary school then she could teach any year group up to Y6. Each year it could change. She will either have a bachelors degree and PGCE with QTS (post grad degree) or a BEd. She will then have had to pass her probationary period as an NQT. Starting salary is £25k, which is similar to what you’re on without the additional qualifications and training. Maybe look for a job at a different nursery for a higher wage.

I just can't believe an FS1 'teacher' holds the same status as an A Level Maths teacher. There is no way they are equally qualified or academic.

I just can’t believe people really think like this!

So, if someone got a first in maths and a PGCE, then went to teach nursery/reception/KS1, do you think they are not ‘equally qualified or academic’ than someone with a C in maths at A level, a third in computer science and a PGCE who is teaching your child maths?

You don’t get paid more, the bigger the child you teach!

degree doesn't always equal "better"

It's clearly not about the degree, because as you say you have one.

It's about having qualified teacher status and then applying for a job that is actually a teacher job in a school.

You could spend a year getting a PGCE then you could get a job in a school nursery and be paid on the teacher scale.

Well said @howshouldibehave
A primary teacher has to be academic and understand education in a way that many secondary teachers don't because it's about their subject rather than teaching the whole child. So both need to be educated and academic but in different areas.

YABU… if it bothers you that much stop whinging, get off your backside and get qualified

I'm going to mention again as this is a good point you don't seem to have seen. In your nursery would you pay your unqualified nursery assistants the same as your fully qualified staff. The only difference would be the the qualification yes? they generally do the same work. A nursery wouldn't function if they had to pay them both the same (and it wouldn't be fair on the qualified staff)

I was going to say the same thing. We need more bilingual translators and you'll earn more. You can do this on top of the nursery or work in a school for children of the deaf.

OP have you any plans to continue your education so that you can qualify as a teacher? I can't see that you have responded to this in your previous posts.

My eldest child went to a nursery/preschool that was staffed by nursery assistants and a manager as I felt it was more relaxed and would suit her better than a structured school nursery. She didn't particularly enjoy it, they didn't 'get' her at all. For example she always wanted to play with a certain toy so they hid it on the days she attended to force her to play with something else, which really distressed her. When she started school, her teacher stopped me and asked where she had went to nursery, I told her and she said 'ahh yes you can always tell the difference between DC who went to playgroup style preschools rather than school nurseries'. I was a bit taken aback. She said my DC was struggling with the routines etc. Anyway soon after the teacher identified there was more going on and soon had her undergoing assessments which led to an ASD diagnosis. The nursery staff clearly lacked the skills to identify the red flags and instead fought against her quirks instead of recognising what they might mean. Obviously teachers also cannot diagnose, but they are well equipped to identify when a child needs further assessment.

In my opinion it is much like a healthcare assistant taking obs on a patient. They are able to record the obs perfectly - but can they interpret them? Probably not. The nurse knows what a slight change in the obs might point to, the healthcare assistant probably doesn't. That's the difference a 3 year programme at uni makes.

Being fluent in BSL is not enough to be an interpreter (translators work in written language) the OP may or may not have done some interpreting modules as part of her degree but realistically she would need to be on a masters programme as well as working.

And the money isn't that great. About the same as the OP is already earning.

I agree childcare doesn't pay the workers what they deserve.

As far as I understand, 'free hours' have made the situation worse as the government doesn't give the nurseries the going rate.

It's a tricky one and I don't think it can be solved without the state properly subsidising childcare. If nurseries charge parents more, many parents won't be able to afford to continue to send their children.