Happy I won’t see these Mum’s again

[Cherrysherbet]

My DD left primary today.

The Mum’s from her class are so far up their own arses. I’m quite clearly not their kind of person.

I have been in multiple situations where they will literally turn their back on me to cut me out of a conversation.

I am friendly to everyone, and don’t have this sort of problem in any other part of my life.

They don’t say rude things to me, but their body language makes it clear that I’m not worth including in conversations.

Why do grown women behave like this?

I’ve hated going there the last couple of years. I really hate the fact that it has bothered me so much. I’m 48 ffs!

Even today at the leavers assembly, they asked me to move seats, and when I moved up, the woman turned her back, so I wasn’t able to speak to anyone! I have never been that close to saying something! I moved right over the other side of the room. Sick of being treated like that.

I am so happy that I’m not tied to having to go there now.
I came home and deleted myself from the class what’s app straight away! Yessss!!

AIBU to ask all primary school Mum’s who are going back in September to be thoughtful about how their actions make others feel?

We teach our kids to be kind and include others, so why do we often get this kind of mentality with the Mum’s? I’ve seen lots of similar post on here before, so I’m sure I’m not the only one who has experienced it.

My two moved schools recently after having been at previous school 6 years. Massive influx of texts the day we left. Silence ever since. Absolute silence.

These school run mums are not your friends. I now drop and run at new school and not gone on the WhatsApp. Genuinely don't give a sht this time round!

There is something very odd about the "school gate mum" post syndrome. I'm genuinely nonplussed about why so many women (and it is almost always women) get so upset and take this so personally.

You literally don't see this in any other environment. You don't get people tipping up on MN saying: "why are people at work so bitchy?" or "why are the women at my hairdresser's salon so bitchy?" But not a day goes by without a "school gate mums clique" post. Nine times out of ten when you unpick these, the "offences" behind this are either miscommunications or someone having an off day or they are pretty trivial. It's always "she looked past me", or "she turned her back". Well, sometimes people do things like that out of tiredness or lack of social skill or whatever. But the worst possible motives always get read into it.

People are way too invested in this. A lot of people seem to come from the standpoint that having children at primary school is a social life on a plate. Well, its not. It's about your children, not you. It's no different from any other environment which requires a certain level of social fluency. Some people do make good and genuine friendships among the school mum network. Others make convenience friendships for a time and that's fine. And some people don't make friends at all. No one is obliged to be your friend simply because your kids are in the same class.

Yes politeness and smalltalk help and unkind people are arseholes and there's no excuse. But if someone isn't putting their all into being your next best friend there may be a perfectly good reason.

Some women are too busy and don't have time. Some women are shy. Some are neurodiverse or depressed. Some have no social skills. Some already have good friendship networks and don't have the bandwidth or capacity to put the work in. And that may be irritating to you but that's really their call. Not everyone has the capacity to turn primary school into a brand new social network. If you don't instantly make loads of friends through the primary school network, try to make them somewhere which is more appropriate for making friends.

Very well defined Undecided1985.
And also I had a good laugh reading your post.

With my first DC1(the one of the horrible class and horrible mums) I was really confused. I was wondering about the cause of being ignored at the school gate, and I thought it could be:
-Being Spanish (foreign)

• Maybe too direct- being Spanish?

-Having a full time job and be proud of it -Not having a clue or any interest in fashion/brands or "celebrities".

To my surprise with DC2 and DC3 I am still the same person and mums in those two groups really include me (and everyone else!). So the conclusion is: it's not you, it's THEM.

Thepeopleversuswork I think it's because you see the same people x10 every week and feel uncomfortable around 95% of them. Eventually it gets to you. Not about making friends and definitely all about the kids. But you are there too. We have mumsnet so we can talk about life / how we feel about life.

Glad it's over.
Even though those women don't matter they can still make you feel terrible.
At least you have deleted the group and can move on

@GoofyJones

Yeah I sort of get that but why the heightened sensitivity in this particular scenario? It literally doesn't come up about any other area of life.

Also its often very irrational and pretty vituperative. It's always "school gate mums are the worst". "I'm so glad I never have to see them again" etc etc. Some of the people posting this are themselves being pretty nasty. I'd be more sympathetic if people came on saying: "I find it hard making friends via school, AIBU?".

But the way its phrased is toxic and suspicious and judgemental. Women are always "bitches" or "cliquey". They can't every just be going about their business or tired or working or feeling ill. The worst possible motives always have to be read into what is in the scheme of things pretty trivial behaviour.

Excellent post.

People who get worked up about this kind of thing need to really get some perspective

There was a group of mums like this at my DCs' primary school. They were all already friends and would only speak to each other, and wouldn't allow their kids to socialise with other kids from outside their friendship circle outside of school. They all always declined party invites from any child whose mum wasn't in their group. Very odd bunch.

I wasn't really bothered and just ignored them and made friends with the other mums who weren't in their group.

I agree. Men are 100% easier to work with.

I think people are missing some of the OP point generally when these types of cliques or power parents are not welcoming to other mums they tend to often extend that to the children. I dont care if i am or am not a friend of whichever school mum but it has pssed me off to see my eldest DC miss out on so many close friendships because clique or queen bee type parents control their kids friendships.*

I’m sorry your DC has missed out because of that, that’s really shitty behaviour from so called adults. Having worked in a school I have had different experiences though - maybe to a certain extent to a certain age parents can influence this, but children will be friends with who they want to be friends with especially by the end of KS2. They go out and see who they want, the parents have little say. Even in the younger years I am sometimes surprised by the odd office message that comes through along the lines of ‘Bill is being picked up by Bob’s mum today…’ clearly their parents are friends, they must see each other outside of school but you wouldn’t know it because Bob and Bill don’t show any interest in each other in the classroom or on the playground, they are much closer to other children. Very young children you can just stick together in a room and they’ll play, they are much more focussed on what they are doing than who they are with. That changes as they grow up and build proper relationships based on personalities clicking.

Thepeopleversuswork for me it feels like having to see a dental hygienist for a clean ten times a week. You can go, you know you can handle it, it's just... unpleasant. I would probably actually rather go to see a hygienist ten times a week tbh. It's the awkwardness. It's so hard to explain. Also I can't really pinpoint a clique as such at my son's school, or many particular mean mums, it's more the feeling that my son is at the wrong place and therefore we are not blooming, we are with the wrong people. Surviving not thriving as Ms Markle would say.

I think the reason why there are so many posts about this is because it sort of sounds nuts to say this sort of thing in real life!! Over sensitive maybe. But the struggle is real.

@GoofyJones

I sympathise but the way you describe this it sounds as if your son isn't happy, not you. And I totally understand why that would be upsetting but that's not really about the parents, its about the school?

I'm not really talking about this sort of scenario: the thing I find incredibly irritating is this blanket protestation that "school gate mums are bitchy", as if there were a separate species of women who congregate around primary schools looking for beta women to bully and patronise.

It's judgemental and dare I say it reeks of internalised misogyny.

Thepeopleversuswork yes for me it is about the school generally. We feel like outsiders. My son has a place which we are hoping may become available in the next six months or so but no guarantees and until then I'll just have to look at my phone at pick up and drop off... sigh.

@Thepeopleversuswork

Nice lecture!

It can be hugely upsetting to be constantly ignored, daily, by groups of women who usually have lots of time to chat with others, but not you. If this has not happened to you, and you don't understand how it might feel if it did then you lack empathy.

I do like the overly cheery 'Morning!' approach suggested above though...

It's a general 'on your best behaviour' context, where the done thing is to smile and make small talk. You'd never say 'hello' to one neighbour, but not to the other, when you are particularly friendly or keen on one, rather than the other.

This post made me laugh because my DH actually does do exactly that. He finds one of our neighbours really odd and annoying and will avoid eye contact so he doesn’t get into conversation while watering the grass - then he’s all smiles with the old man who lives on the other side.
The neighbour he isn’t keen on is very try hard - he does just amble around trying to make conversation with anyone who gets in his path. I don’t mind chatting with him, but I’m good at getting out of conversations when I feel I’m done - my husband always feels ‘stuck’. This neighbour isn’t a lonely old man, he’s his late 20s I’d say, married and frequently has friends and family over.
Relating this thread to that experience I wonder if some people here who feel rejected have been a bit try hard or made people feel awkward and it’s put people off?

Primary school politics is just plain weird. I have found some really close friendships with some mums and dads and then there are other mums who are just plain awful. Moved to a village a few years ago and it was quite funny how awful some of the mums were. There is a high sense of self importance that creates this clique. I was quite open but soon realised how awful they spoke about each other so left. Luckily clicked and remained close with some other mum and dads who are just normal!

But why invest in them, if they're as nasty as you say? Why do you allow yourself to care about people who are horrible? Just fuck them off....

EV117

I think my eldest child's problem was that within school he was close friends with Tom, George, Harry & Ben but they all met up numerous times outside of school due to the parents clique and they were never for inviting my child or other kids along - despite us having invited them over. So it was just really hard. The parents blanked us and just had no interest regardless of their own kids preferred friendship preferences. Unfortunately this group made up 50% of the boys in the class and the queen bee clique made up another chunk. So it was not easy

I agree kids find their own friends as they get older completely agree - but even in late primary early secondary parents can have huge control over who their kids socialise with

So the problem is that some parents dont allow the kids to make their own choices.

Better at secondary!!

Why do grown women behave like this?

They may be physically grown, but they’re perpetually stuck in middle school, that’s why.
Let it be a relief, @Cherrysherbet, that you aren’t like them. Pretty soon, they’ll be doing it to each other — count on it.

I thought that.. I do still try though as don't want to be rude. I admire the mums who come in and bolt without a word.

A school mum complained about a friend of mine being cliquey and bitchy. My friend is actually incredibly kind and nice but just didn’t know the mum who complained. I really think people who worry about this kind of thing are probably overestimating how much other people think about them.

Totally. It's people living in a bubble and obsessing over how other people respond to them when those people usually just haven't given it that much thought.

The solution isn't to lash out and paint all women who are occasionally a bit off with you as bitches, its for the people whose self-esteem is sufficiently low that they read so much into these interactions to take responsibility for sorting themselves out.

Hear hear. It’s pretty lazy stuff. I had a spectacularly lonely few years living in a Midlands village where no one was remotely friendly at baby/toddler groups or, later, the context of school runs, volunteering etc. But I didn’t take it personally — no one owed me their attention, after all. I wasn’t some kind of charity/tolerance project. I made my friends at work and didn’t let it lay an axe to the roots of my self-esteem. It was just a poor match between person and environment.

I’m with you OP. Can’t wait until I see the arse end of my kids school and the school mums 🤣