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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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137 replies

Littlelollipopxo · 20/07/2022 09:45

We have two DS 7 & 1.5, Currently NC with MIL & FIL and all of partners family, happened in last 12 months and atm there is no intention of reconciliation on either side.

MIL & FIL currently live down south, we haven’t seen them since the Christmas period, which is when the NC with them happeneD, so they haven’t seen either DS since then.

however, they will randomly FaceTime DS’s iPad to speak to them (this has probably happened once a month since Christmas) they don’t text to give a heads up or ask if it’s ok for them to speak (don’t ask if we’re out or their having tea or visitors or whatever)

They did this last night, DS came running over to us with iPad (we had friends over) saying Nanny was on phone, I said ok go and sit inside so you can speak to her properly (phone call lasts about 5 mins then that’s it till next time)

would I be unreasonable to send a text asking for a heads up when they plan on FaceTiming, or do I just let them keep randomly ringing?

I get we don’t speak atm and for context I have never stopped them speaking/seeing DS’s neither has partner they have simply chosen not to and have 8 other grandchildren who they still see etc.

so yeah thoughts please:)

OP posts:
KettrickenSmiled · 20/07/2022 14:48

Nursemumma92 · 20/07/2022 13:52

You cannot possibly judge whether someone is a 'poor parent' from a MN post. At no point is he unsupervised and you'd see that if you read the OP's post. He also doesn't have a device that anyone can call him on- just his parents and GP's.
Family situations can be extremely complex, and whilst it can be difficult to understand why you would let your DCs have contact with toxic relations, it can also be harmful to a child's wellbeing if the relationship is cut and they don't understand, in situations where the GPs pose no risk and have conversations once a month that are listened to.

Really no need to be rude and provocative with your words.

So nice to meet a self-appointed Prefect @Nursemumma92

Why keep cheerleading for a mother who allows her 7 year old facetime calls on his ipad, because it's "only" his grandmother, who is so abusive to his parents that they've cut her out of their own lives?

If someone was so abusive to you that you had to go NC with them, why on earth would you allow them contact with your child?

LittleOwl153 · 20/07/2022 15:10

I think the big question is where this goes in the future. Would there be an expectation that your youngest gets involved? At which point you or dh would have no choice but to be more involved...

Also what do you envisage this contact with the 7yr old being when they are 10, 12 and at secondary, 15 and u0set about something at home? What happens when he says granny says she wants to see him so is coming to pick him up and he can stay a few days? You need to really consider what this looks like in the long run. I can see why it happened as you probably didn't intend for the NC with you and your husband to be long term but it is getting that way now so if there is no resolving you need to consider what happens with the dc contact.

To answer your question, no I don't think granny should be able to rule when contact is and certainly don't let it be a pattern but I don't think your solution works. Just say no to dc. Cut granny off if necessary, put the ipad away and do something else when a call is expected that you don't want....

Nursemumma92 · 20/07/2022 15:24

@KettrickenSmiled haha ill happily be called a self appointed prefect if that means I'll call out people launching attacks at others. Life is not black and white and whilst I don't necessarily agree that I would allow contact with relatives we are NC with, I have a very difficult MIL and know that these situations are not clear cut. Just think you need to back off and choose your words nicely rather than make allegations and assumptions when you haven't read what the OP has actually put.

Horological · 20/07/2022 16:58

I know it's a difficult thought to imagine, but It is highly likely that some people on this thread will eventually be on the receiving end of NC by their adult children at some point in the future. Instead of vengeful fuming I think people should think more about what NC actually is.

Being able to go NC is one of the good things about the modern world that people (especially women) understand that they are allowed to have boundaries, that they have the right to call out bad behaviour, toxicity and abuse. Going NC is a brave and necessary thing to do if anybody in your life has not treated you well. The thing is though, going NC is about asserting your own boundaries. It is to protect yourself and make your life as you need it and want it. But, it's not a punishment to the other person. The other person almost never 'learns' anything from being ostracised, in fact they often redouble their toxic behaviour as a way of retaliating. There is therefore little to be gained by insisting that everyone you associate with is also NC unless (of course) the toxic behaviour involves eg. child abuse or other illegal behaviour.

My grandparents were very poor parents to my mother and so she was NC with them, but I did have some contact. As I child I learned from my mother that people have the right to go NC, and that was a very important life lesson. I understood that my grandmother had a very unpleasant side to her her which was a combination of trauma she had suffered as a child and a total ignorance what children needed to thrive. So, I learned that many (if not most) adults are capable of good and bad depending on circumstances. My grandmother was awful to my mother (no doubt) but as she grew older and learned how to behave better when under less pressure she proved to be harmless ocassional company for me with the added bonus of keeping me connected our family heritage (language, food, history etc). This is absolutely not to minimise how she behaved at all but to acknowledge that many people behave unforgiveably with some people and at some point in their lives, but not always and forever.

I think that is a really important thing to know because it applies to every one of us. We are going around thinking we are decent people but at some point it is quite likely that somebody in our family will tell us what we have done wrong. Humans are complicated.

5128gap · 20/07/2022 20:44

My mum didn't speak to her mum either. They had an argument, and neither wanted the relationship to continue, so they never made it up. As adults they simply didn't like each other and (perhaps sensibly) didn't think their blood relationship required them to suffer each other's company. Today they would no doubt be described as 'NC'.
I had an excellent relationship with both. Neither was perfect and as I got older I could see how their characters were simply not compatible. On one hand a very sensitive woman who got easily upset, on the other an overly blunt one who didn't see the need to mince words. But both good women with considerable strengths.
No doubt had the expression been so popular then, they would have described each other as 'toxic'. But in truth, they weren't, it was their dynamic and relationship that was.
Few rifts are entirely the fault of one person's 'toxicity' (and yes, of course there are exceptions, like abuse) but often behaviour that is intolerable to one person won't necessarily pose problems for everyone they encounter.

NightyKnight · 20/07/2022 21:21

So I've read most but not all of the thread and I can see both sides, though I think some people could have been gentler with how they phrased their opinions...

Basically what we're talking about here is boundaries.

And first off I'm going to point you in the direction of a brilliant book (series for every scenario), called Boundaries by Dr Henry Cloud and Dr John Thompson. I have no vested interest but I'm a coach and I have used their books as tools in my work and in my home life A LOT!

One analogy they use is that boundaries are like a fence around your property with a gate. You get to decide who comes in and out.

For some people they don't trust the fence and gate, so they build castle walls, complete with drawbridge, moat and possibly a fiery dragon to keep people out!

However, you can make something so secure and well protected that no one can get in and that can have negative consequences. I think this is what you're worried about with regard to your DS.

A couple of hypothetical scenarios for you...

A) You continue as you are, GPs randomly call up on the iPad without any agreement or concern for timings etc. Let's say this carries on going til DS is 13,14 yrs old. DS now has the idea that when GM calls he has to answer no matter how inconvenient it is, as he has never learned a clear boundary that phone calls are for the receiver's benefit and can be at their convenience. Now DS wants to share about their new love interest (assuming they still have a good rel with GM)... but this person is someone GPs don't approve of (fill in the blank...different race, background, different gender to expectation)...GM expresses shock/horror etc and says no this won't do at all. DS talks back. GM cuts him off as he isn't doing what they approve of (I think this is kind of what you alluded to that there is no room for alternative views or choices?). Regardless DS is now hurt and upset by seemingly loving GPs reacting negatively to him having an opinion and a boundary about what is okay in his life. Now...unfortunately you have to step in to protect your child, and probably have the same arguments with the GPs as you had before you went NC.

B) You take this opportunity to sit your DS down and explain that phone/video calls have to convenient for the family as a whole, so now you're going to ask GPs to schedule calls. You also let GPs know you will be present, if out of sight.

Here you start, very simply and gently to set up the idea of healthy boundaries. As DS gets older you can start to talk about what they need to do if someone says something that makes them feel ick or sad inside...come talk to mum and dad, and let's work out what your needs are here, let's work out what kind of a boundary is going to help you feel better, safer, more confident in future, and let's find a way to do this in a respectfully assertive way.

C) You choose to do what some PPs have suggested and go fully NC.

Initially DS may be confused, wonder why GM doesn't care any more, but not enough to ask, so it leaves a slight nagging doubt that maybe they did something wrong. Maybe you explain that the GPs upset you and you have chosen this route. Just check in with yourself, what message does that send? If you upset your child later, is that their first reaction, to go NC because that is what was modelled and they don't know any other way of setting a healthy boundary? I think you are also concerned that down the line they may be upset with you for not giving them the chance to have that relationship with them.

I am NC with my brother for about 5 yrs now, so don't think for a moment that I am questioning that aspect. I just think this could be a good ongoing opportunity to teach your DS and eventually both your DCs about setting and enforcing healthy boundaries little and often. I understand what people have said about them being toxic, but your LO is too young to understand that, and at the moment their ability to introduce that toxicity into DS's life is very limited indeed so I don't think you are doing anything wrong by allowing it. It is your choice ultimately.

You are also entitled to change your mind one way or another down the line, in order to work out what is healthy, what you are willing to allow, and what is safe.

I have had to work extremely hard with my parents, especially my mother, on what are acceptable boundaries, both with me and my son (14 yrs). Unfortunately for her now, her constant overstepping, not listening, subtle guilting, shaming etc means that my son is unwilling to spend more than the briefest time with her. We go to lunch with them, have a pleasant, fairly superficial, but safe time, and then we leave when my son has had enough and wants to go. I still gate-keep a fair amount as my son has some SEN, predominantly anxiety.

Someone did suggest I went NC with both my parents, to see if that helped my son. I considered it, but my dad is 76, and for me I couldn't live with cutting him off in order to distance my mum. I did set stricter boundaries with her, I do sometimes threaten to hang up on her when she won't let something go (but I do know it is only because she cares and is desperate to help...but her controlling nature makes it hard and A LOT!), and we have upped and left when she wouldn't calm down or let something go (dog with bone), but I try to do it calmly and firmly, and then explain to my son why we needed to do that. My hope is that my son will have a much much better understanding of how to keep himself safe as he grows up than I did, and also know that I am there for him and will protect him, even from my own parents if necessary. It's harder, but I think it is worthwhile. Over time she has got better at self-policing, and she knows much more clearly what I will and won't tolerate, and the same with my son. I don't think she will change her underlying beliefs that drive some of the unhealthy behaviours, but that's not surprising as she is 70, and has no interest in therapy or improving her emotional intelligence.

Sorry, that's long and I didn't even say if you are BU or not! I think it's more complicated and nuanced than that, and you and your son deserve better than a simple yes or no.

As for sending the text, you could simply write, you are busy with activities and holiday plans and whilst you accept the GPs calling, you would like them to schedule a regular time so you can build it in at a convenient time. You would suggest xy day and time. If this is not acceptable then you will be removing the GM's email from those which will be accepted by the tablet for incoming calls.

HTH x

Littlelollipopxo · 20/07/2022 22:25

@NightyKnight wow thankyou that was very helpful and some good scenarios! I think the second option may work best in setting healthy boundaries etc, I see your point about the NC in the future that I wouldn’t want him to think that’s the default answer to everything because it isn’t.

thanks :)

OP posts:
NightyKnight · 20/07/2022 23:30

Littlelollipopxo · 20/07/2022 22:25

@NightyKnight wow thankyou that was very helpful and some good scenarios! I think the second option may work best in setting healthy boundaries etc, I see your point about the NC in the future that I wouldn’t want him to think that’s the default answer to everything because it isn’t.

thanks :)

You're very welcome! You've got this!

A580Hojas · 20/07/2022 23:35

How do you propose your parents in law have a relationship with your children when they don't have one with you?

Mamai90 · 20/07/2022 23:35

Veebees26 · 20/07/2022 10:03

I agree, it's crazy to me the amount of shit people get just for making different decisions to what some commenters think they should.

Ultimately if the OP believes it to be in the best interests of her children to still have contact with their GPs then that is her decision alone, she hardly deserves a load of crap for it from folk that haven't a clue about her situation or the circumstances.

This all day long.

There are some right sanctimonious twats on mumsnet.

LampLighter414 · 21/07/2022 00:12

They would have been deleted as a contact/blocked/app removed from iPad as soon as it first happened for me.

WinterMusings · 21/07/2022 11:08

@Littlelollipopxo

as I said previously, they have caused enough of a problem in your lives that NC seemed to be your best solution.

I get that you don't want your Dc to resent you cutting contact with them, but you have to do what's BEST for your children. When he's older but still a child he might ask & you can give him further age appropriate explanations. older than that you can be much more forthright.

the thing is, you know she thinks it's her right as a grandmother to xyz. What happens when before long she's inviting him to stay & likely bad mouthing you. Or allowing him to do stuff you wouldn't.

your DC do not need a relationship with people who have treated you & DH so badly you've gone NC, they just don't.

just block them ON DC devices,you youngest us too young to know/care and your eldest, if he even notices or cares, can simply be told they must be very busy, but as HE never asks to call them I doubt he'll be that bothered.

id put a stop to it now, before it causes real issues.

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