Dangerous dogs

[Poppyseed14]

My neighbours' cat was killed this week by two dogs outside our local shop. They were on a lead but being held by the owner's partner who wasn't able to control them. Think American Bully XL types. They take part in those training sessions where they are trained to attack the guy in the padded suit. Not a banned breed in the UK though larger and stronger than a pitbull. A few days ago an adult in Rotherham was killed by the same breed and her partner sustained life threatening injuries trying to get the dog off her. That was their family pet. I know it's all to do with the owners more so than the dogs themselves but I cannot get these awful situations out of my head. The death of the cat has shaken the local community as he was a well known and very much loved local character but it could so easily have been a child instead. And the owners will continue to endanger people and pets. No AIBU just venting really. Feeling so sad for my neighbours, they are understandably devastated.

I’m talking about the specific individual dog in the OP that has unprovoked and while being restrained by its owner still attacked and killed a cat. That specific dog is a dangerous dog. It’s not about breeds. It’s about this dog and it’s actual behaviour.

I wish people would stop trying to say that dogs with prey drives are a danger to people

Why not? They are. Lets never let the facts get in the way of delusion, hey?

Actually, I didn't suggest the greyhound could be trained - a greyhound that chases and kills a cat may well not be trainable with cats in future. So please be more careful when reading posts, because you're accusing me of something I literally did not say or imply.

Fair enough, I misunderstood you.

I said that these dogs are dangerous in the way that a loose greyhound isn't - there are appropriate mitigations to control a greyhound - a second leashing arrangement, possibly coupled with a muzzle.

So why can't you use the same mitigations with an XL bully?

The bullies would require extensive training, which may or may not be possible, depending on owner and dogs, because their probably isn't solvable with a bit more kit.

Why not?

As I said in a previous post, any out of control dog is dangerous - whether it bites or not. Putting a muzzle on those bullies will not prevent them dragging their owner into traffic, or causing harm in other, similar ways.

But just because a dog is strong enough to pull their owner into traffic, doesn't mean it's automatically a danger. I mean, any big dog is capable of pulling their owner over or pulling the lead out of their owners hands - greyhounds included. Hell, my beagle has pulled me over chasing a rabbit before and he's only 18kg.

I suppose I just don't understand how XL bully that's muzzled, leashed and wearing appropriate gear is anymore dangerous than a greyhound that's muzzled, leashed and wearing appropriate gear?

I disagree. When I let my cats out I accept they may be at risk from getting hit by a car or getting accidentally my shut in somewhere but I don’t believe I should have to worry about out of control dogs or malicious people that go out of their way to harm animals. The fact is there should be no out of control dogs. It shouldn’t be something we have to worry about. It’s illegal.

You could apply your logic to a child that got attacked after being allowed to play out in the street. It’s not very logical in my opinion neither be it kind.

Well, because they're not. That's a fact. The list of fatal dog attacks upthread proves as much.

The dogs with the highest prey drives are greyhounds, lurchers, spaniels, beagles and most non-bull terrier breeds. They're not breeds that are ever associated with human aggression or fatal attacks on humans.

I'm also sorry about your cat, but what if he went into a dogs' home or garden? You can't blame a dog for chasing a cat that's come into its' home and territory, surely?

I don't let my cats out to roam for precisely this reason - I know it's not safe.

What proof do you have that it's dangerous? Because it's strong and killed a cat? Any breed over about 10-15kg can easily pull an owner over and cause carnage.

So if your dog decided to attack the cat you would have just stood there? You actually turned around and let your dog decide whether it attacks the cat?
You are in control of your dog.
Why are people acting as if cats are fair game if they are out and about? They are not. Prey drive or not, a cat is a pet not a wild animal.
If you have your dog out and it encounters a cat who's "too big for it's boots" you don't let it attack it!

I actually can't believe some of the responses on here.

Your dog, prey drive or not is 100% your responsibility to manage and control.
It makes no difference the breed or size, you control your dog accordingly.

If you know your dog may chase and kill a cat, keep it on a lead in places it may encounter one. No excuses.

As for the large dogs attacking and killing people, again no excuse. Shit happens but keeping a large breed capable of causing fatal harm to another being is a massive responsibility.

I can't be bothered with the rest of it......but American bulldogs are not American bullys.

I’ve already answered this with regards to different circumstances and private property. I believe it would cease to be a dog that was dangerously out of control and become a terrible accident. My cat was killed in the street outside my house. Totally different imo.

All the people who go to such lengths to deny that overwhelmingly the bully and pitbull breeds can be dangerous are a very large part of the problem.

It's a fact that an xl bully is more likely to attack, and is more likely to kill, than a cockerpoo. That's what they're bred for. But people who fall over themselves to assure us all that they're such kind, gentle dogs really are the issue. Because the evidence suggests they're not. Look how many people have been maimed and killed by them in the last couple of years. The one that killed a little boy recently had been used as a stud dog, even with a known history of aggression. So there's a good chance he will have passed on his bad temperament to all the cute little puppies he sired. So the problem perpetuates. But yeah, they're lovely dogs, deed not breed and all that bollocks.

Yes it is. Killing a cat is unequivocally aggressive behaviour in a dog. And aggressive behaviour in a dog is the #1 sign that dog is a dangerous dog. Dangerous to humans, especially children.

According to Cats.org.U.K.
The vast majority of dog owners are responsible and keep their dogs under control. When a dog does attack a cat, it is usually because the owner fails to control their dog. An attack by a dog on a cat can be an indication of a dog that is dangerous and needs control. There have been reported instances of dogs that attack cats going on to attack children.

Dangerous Dog from CPS:
“A dog shall be regarded as dangerously out of control on any occasion on which there are grounds for reasonable apprehension that it will injure any person or assistance dog, whether or not it actually does so, (section 10(3) Dangerous Dogs Act 1991). This is not an exhaustive definition and the ordinary meaning of the words should still be applied. If a dog is factually deemed to be acting in a way that could be termed ‘dangerously out of control’, for example attacking livestock, a prosecution may still be brought. Prosecutors should note the ruling in Briscoe v Shattock [1998] EWHC Admin 929, in which the meaning of ‘dangerousness’ equates to the dog’s disposition rather than its actions. A dog can be ‘dangerous’ to other animals as well as to humans.“

How many sighthounds have been responsible for killing human beings?

Show me some stats for greyhound/sighthound attacks on people.
I would hazard a guess that whatever figure there is (if it exists) would be outnumbered by the amount of sighthounds used as PaT dogs.

Yes. It has killed a cat despite the owner attempting to restrain it. This is aggression and the dog was dangerously out of control resulting in the death of another persons animal. This is a well known massive red flag that the dog is a dangerous dog.

Why should I? That’s not the breed of the dog in the OP. It’s completely irrelevant as to whether this specific dog is dangerous or not. Youre just engaging in whataboutery. Might as well be sitting there and asking me how many cats are killed by foxes…not relevant.

Like I said my cat was killed outside my house in the street. If he had of been killed in the dog owner’s garden then no, I wouldn’t think they were at fault as but the fact is their dog was allowed to be dangerously out of control in a public place. There is no black and white, and circumstances are relevant when assessing if a dog is dangerously out of control imo.

I should be able to let my cats out without worrying about a dog attack outside my own house, just as I should be able to let my kids play out without worrying about this! Why? Because it’s the law for dogs to be kept under control and for good reason, and if you’re any kind of decent owner then you wouldn’t want your dog behaving in a dangerous or out of control manner.

@Feelfreetocallme
Exactly, the Gov webpage states
”Overview

It’s against the law to let a dog be dangerously out of control anywhere, such as:

in a public place
in a private place, for example a neighbour’s house or garden
in the owner’s home

The law applies to all dogs.

You can report a dog that’s out of control.

Some types of dogs are banned.

Out of control
Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it:

injures someone
makes someone worried that it might injure them

A court could also decide that your dog is dangerously out of control if either of the following apply:

it attacks someone’s animal
the owner of an animal thinks they could be injured if they tried to stop your dog attacking their animal”

www.gov.uk/control-dog-public

Last I looked a pet cat is someone’s animal.

Very sad!...... Lots of 'toy' dogs about that are 'small and furry' wonder what the response would be if the victim wasn't a cat!

Also would you say that to the owner of the Pomeranian who had their dog killed by an out of control husky? Dogs both out of control in a public place led to the same outcome. Ffs

Because you made the statement that a dog that kills a cat is dangerous to people too, when that is simply not true. Yes, the breed does not matter, but sighthounds, greyhounds in particular, are known for not being safe around cats.
And the no statistic out there supports your view that a dog that is not cat safe is also not child/people safe.

So if my greyhound attacks a cat in her own garden, she is classed as a dangerous dog?
I see countless posts on MN about rats in gardens... and people say t get a terrier, or a cat. Why are they not dangerous, and on the path to eventually attaching a child?

It is true. Cats are not the natural prey of dogs. That is a common misconception fed by childhood cartoons. Attacking and killing a cat means the dog does not have the usual inhibitions and socialisation that make it also safe to be around small children.

So my dog chasing cats in her own garden means she is unsafe around children?
Ridiculous. I mean, my dog can be dumb at times but she knows the difference between a hissy cat and a child who asks to pet her.

I don’t think it would apply if such an incident were to occur in an enclosed private garden providing it was purely accidental. That’s way it says control dog PUBLIC.. Clues in the name.