Dangerous dogs

[Poppyseed14]

My neighbours' cat was killed this week by two dogs outside our local shop. They were on a lead but being held by the owner's partner who wasn't able to control them. Think American Bully XL types. They take part in those training sessions where they are trained to attack the guy in the padded suit. Not a banned breed in the UK though larger and stronger than a pitbull. A few days ago an adult in Rotherham was killed by the same breed and her partner sustained life threatening injuries trying to get the dog off her. That was their family pet. I know it's all to do with the owners more so than the dogs themselves but I cannot get these awful situations out of my head. The death of the cat has shaken the local community as he was a well known and very much loved local character but it could so easily have been a child instead. And the owners will continue to endanger people and pets. No AIBU just venting really. Feeling so sad for my neighbours, they are understandably devastated.

There are breeds of dogs, rather than generic dogs/wolves, because they have been bred for certain characteristics.

It's ridiculous to say that dogs bred to stand up to massive scary bulls, have not been bred from bolder/more aggressive lines. I am sure it is possible to train a bull breed to be a perfect dog, and yes, the crap owners to blame, but isn't it like giving someone without a driving licence a tank rather than a moped? If you cant control it then you are more likely to cause serious harm.

Of course I'm not in favour of dogs being allowed to eat cats, but a prey drive is not the same thing as an aggressive streak, and it's incredibly unhelpful to suggest that it is.

I didn't say anything about aggression, just that people who have them out and about who can't control them are arseholes.

My family have dogs, staffs amongst them, they don't eat cats. One of them was a rescue when we got her and she was kept under really close supervision until she proved herself uninterested in local neighborhood cats, of which there's loads, and even now in areas she might come across them she stays on a short lead with someone who is always able to be in control of her. You kinda owe that duty of care to other pet owners no?

My greyhound has strong, strong prey drive for squirrels and possibly cat but is not in the slight bit aggressive

In fact she is also a therapy dog and goes into schools and nursing homes

And she doesn't sees children as prey, she sees them as rub and biscuit givers

Prey drive is a form of aggression.

Exactly.

what are people’s explanation for when these dogs attack their owners?

Then they're aggressive.

Nobody is saying otherwise.

What they are saying is that killing a cat is not the same as killing a person. They are two completely separate drives/instincts.

Not really. My lurcher would kill any cat that crossed his path. That’s his inherent instinct and what he’s been bred to do.

He is not aggressive at all.

My greyhound shows no interest in cats when out, but she will chase cats that come into our garden, which is just the one... who is very aggressive himself. He has gone for me several times when I was simply walking past.
I have to admit, I do not discourage her from chasing him off.

I didn't say anything about aggression, just that people who have them out and about who can't control them are arseholes.

I agree.

My family have dogs, staffs amongst them, they don't eat cats. One of them was a rescue when we got her and she was kept under really close supervision until she proved herself uninterested in local neighborhood cats, of which there's loads, and even now in areas she might come across them she stays on a short lead with someone who is always able to be in control of her. You kinda owe that duty of care to other pet owners no?

Again, I don't disagree. I'm not saying these dogs aren't dangerous to cats, or that they weren't out of control in this particular scenario, but that's still not the same as them being dangerous to people, which is what many posters are trying to argue.

@coffeecupsandfairylights thing is, if you take the stance that killing humans = aggressive, that means they werent aggressive dogs prior to the kill.

So how do we tell which ones simply have a prey drive and which ones are aggressive? How many more deaths before we have a grasp of the situation?

And can we please stop pretending the breed has nothing to do with it. Why do people tell themselves these lies?! Ask yourself why a cockapoo or a Lhasa Apso never killed a human

What really is unhelpful is people pretending that all dogs are the same. They aren’t.

All dogs can bite, but not all dogs can kill with their bite.

We fostered a lurcher who shit herself at the sight of a cat 🤣 she was a very special doggy though, we said she was a hamster stuck inside the body of a lurcher as she just didn’t have the typical qualities of one.

Dp's cousin has a bully. These dogs are dangerous. The dog has now been banned from our house after barking and snarling at the 4 kids.
If that dog attacks, it's game over for the victim and game over for the owner.
The problem is these dogs were not bred for domestic situations only for working.
Idiotic to own one.

Instead of the utter fuckwits that have them and don't train them/train them to attack something (including pads)

Well, no. Killing humans is the extreme end of aggression. There's a huge range of behaviours that most of these dogs will have displayed at some point before killing a person - from showing "appeasement behaviours", to growling and snapping, to nipping, lunging and biting.

Think of the breeds that have the highest prey drives - greyhounds, terriers, lurchers and scenthounds. These are breeds that rarely, if ever, attack people. I've never heard of a beagle or a greyhound landing someone in hospital. That's because their drive is to kill and hunt prey, not people.

I absolutely agree that the breed has something to do with it, but I still don't think it's helpful to say that any dog that's a danger to cats is automatically a danger to people. Evidence shows us that it's not true (insofar that no fatal dog attacks have been committed by high-prey drive breeds).

Well the law is that your dog must be under your control, and although these were on leads the person who was with them was not able to control them.

So I'd report to Police as out of control. Potentially very dangerous.

The Police WILL take action - or should- my leashed dog was attacked by an off lead dog, I reported and Police visited the owners and warned them to always have it on a lead and not being walked by the 12 yo son. This was a big, big dog.

All lurchers are special ❤️

Mine will leave my cats alone but the neighbours cat is fair game. Thankfully we have a large garden with lots of trees for the cats to escape up but if he caught one it wouldn’t be my fault it’s be the fault of the owners who let it roam in the first place.

Too many posts on here with an undercurrent of "the cat was outside and got what was coming to it"
Also a massive feeling of cats kill wildlife so it's the same....it isn't.
This was someone's PET. If you choose to have a massive dog which by the way was on a lead then the least you can do is fuckin have it under control. Different scenario if a whippet or greyhound slipped its lead and unfortunately came upon a cat going about its business sad as that is its sheer bad luck but to stand with them on lead watching them tear a family pet apart is nothing short of neglectful not only for their safety but for the safety of others.

For the love of god! Is the heat affecting peoples' fucking brains!!

What's the difference between a car killing birds and a dog killing a cat??!??

How many reports have you heard of cats attacking and killing grown adults!

Why are people defending this arsehole owner??

Yea definitely a serious accident waiting to happen. :(

It’s so sad! And I really think we need much stricter rules on buying ALL animals.

Not only can any idiot buy a dogs but there are puppy farms and too many dogs needing homes when people get fed up with them.

However, animals kill other animals.
I love my dog but there’s no way I’d leave her alone with my rabbit all day.
I also wouldn’t leave my cat with a mouse or bird if I have one.

Animals also kill humans regularly whether it’s dogs, cats, horses, cows etc and the only way we could stop this was if no one ever had a pet or went horse riding etc which would never happen.

I personally love American bulldogs and would choose them over ‘less aggressive’ breeds as I’ve never met a bad one but I have met other breeds that are aggressive which has put me off even though I know it’s not the breeds fault.

These dogs are obviously very powerful so if they attack there is more chance of sustaining serious injuries compared to other dogs which is why it’s so important that they have proper training.

It sounds like these particular dogs were trained to attack which is of course going to make them much more dangerous.

I am scared of horses.
If I was to be around one or ride one I’d get as small as possible as I know the little Shetland’s (although probably worse tempered) can do less damage than the massive shire horses.
I believe I am less likely to get kicked/ bucked off a shire horse because they’re calmer than a Shetland yet they can do more damage - which is the same argument for these dogs, so I get why people believe there should be stricter rules on powerful dogs but then where would it stop?
(P.s I know I can’t ride a Shetland)

These dogs are dangerous because the owner was unable to control them - any out of control dog is dangerous. Out of control dogs dragging their owners about have the potential to attack anything, drag their owner out into the road causing an accident, or any number of other accidents. It is completely reasonable to suggest that two dogs capable of killing a cat while on a leash are potentially dangerous to humans.

Personally I don't like bull breeds, but any large / strong dog is a danger if it's not controllable and controlled (and it's the latter that a lot of people don't bother with). Small dogs are also dangerous if out of control, but at least can usually be restrained on a leash. Bully XLs are the lethal combination of strong and powerful, and attractive to bloody idiots who can't (or don't) train and control them.

There's way too many of these xl bullies being badly bred by people who want a status dog, the bigger and more powerful the better as far as they're concerned. They're not worried about temperament.
X
l bullies should be banned. They weren't bred to be pets. Pretty much every dog attack resulting in serious injury or death recently has involved one or more of them. Dont care about deed not breed - some breeds are just inherently unsuited to being a pet and there's nothing wrong with saying so.

But OP says that's exactly what happened here. The dogs were on lead and under control, but they pulled the owner over, got to the cat and killed it.

Why is that any different to a greyhound slipping its' lead, getting to a cat and killing it?

I have a cat and I lover her to bits. My neighbour has a Patterdale and he's killed a cat, and loads of rats when he's been loose down by the river.
He's a beautiful boy, very friendly with some dogs ,and loving with people, including small children, but he's prey driven towards anything small and furry.

Unless your cat is going round and killing gerbils next door then they're not killing someone else's loved pet are they?

We had guinea pigs and rabbits in our garden - they needed a secure hutch and run with a covered top to keep them safe from cats. Of course a cat could kill someone’s pet.

You train dogs not to attack cats or anything for that matter and if you can't trust your dog then it's on a short lead well under control.

I have to admit I haven’t bothered to train my dog to not be aggressive towards cat - I don’t encourage it but I certainly don’t discourage it - I wouldn’t want him to hurt a cat obviously, but he will scare them out of our garden and they are much faster than him so the danger is minimal. If cats didn’t have the habit of shitting in other people’s gardens I would tell my dog off for it.

What happened in situation the OP described is obviously not ok. But honestly - I’ve been on a walk with my dog, who is a bit more of a wimp in the big wide world than he is in the garden, and a cat was in the middle of the alley way squared up with no intention of moving… I actually turned around because I didn’t know what to do, I didn’t know if my dog would go for it or if the cat would go for the dog! But that’s just me - there are people who would think nothing of kicking a cat or letting their dog snap at it. Not saying that’s ok but that’s how it is. Cats can be a bit big for their boots and not as danger aware as people think. As pp have said, if you choose to let your cat roam it does come with risks.