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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Dangerous dogs

239 replies

Poppyseed14 · 19/07/2022 17:36

My neighbours' cat was killed this week by two dogs outside our local shop. They were on a lead but being held by the owner's partner who wasn't able to control them. Think American Bully XL types. They take part in those training sessions where they are trained to attack the guy in the padded suit. Not a banned breed in the UK though larger and stronger than a pitbull. A few days ago an adult in Rotherham was killed by the same breed and her partner sustained life threatening injuries trying to get the dog off her. That was their family pet. I know it's all to do with the owners more so than the dogs themselves but I cannot get these awful situations out of my head. The death of the cat has shaken the local community as he was a well known and very much loved local character but it could so easily have been a child instead. And the owners will continue to endanger people and pets. No AIBU just venting really. Feeling so sad for my neighbours, they are understandably devastated.

OP posts:

Furries · 21/07/2022 01:49

Flaunch · 19/07/2022 20:34

I’m sorry for the loss of your cat it must have been really traumatic but sadly if you let a cat roam then it being killed by a local dog is the chance you take and must accept as your own responsibility.

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No, dogs are required to be kept under control at all times. Risk of an RTA could maybe accept your post. But your post is rather shitty.

Furries · 21/07/2022 01:54

coffeecupsandfairylights · 19/07/2022 20:43

Actually, I didn't suggest the greyhound could be trained - a greyhound that chases and kills a cat may well not be trainable with cats in future. So please be more careful when reading posts, because you're accusing me of something I literally did not say or imply.

Fair enough, I misunderstood you.

I said that these dogs are dangerous in the way that a loose greyhound isn't - there are appropriate mitigations to control a greyhound - a second leashing arrangement, possibly coupled with a muzzle.

So why can't you use the same mitigations with an XL bully?

The bullies would require extensive training, which may or may not be possible, depending on owner and dogs, because their probably isn't solvable with a bit more kit.

Why not?

As I said in a previous post, any out of control dog is dangerous - whether it bites or not. Putting a muzzle on those bullies will not prevent them dragging their owner into traffic, or causing harm in other, similar ways.

But just because a dog is strong enough to pull their owner into traffic, doesn't mean it's automatically a danger. I mean, any big dog is capable of pulling their owner over or pulling the lead out of their owners hands - greyhounds included. Hell, my beagle has pulled me over chasing a rabbit before and he's only 18kg.

I suppose I just don't understand how XL bully that's muzzled, leashed and wearing appropriate gear is anymore dangerous than a greyhound that's muzzled, leashed and wearing appropriate gear?

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Maybe because lots of peop,e don’t muzzle their dogs. I don’t think people are arguing about dog that are muzzled! It’s a pointless “argument”.

Furries · 21/07/2022 01:57

stillherenow · 19/07/2022 21:46

This thread is nuts ! Lots of dogs would kill a cat given half a chance, they're no more aggressive than a cat killing a mouse. Mine would certainly kill a cat if it caught one. And a squirrel. Children aren't prey .

FML - the daft walk among us.

Furries · 21/07/2022 01:58

stillherenow · 19/07/2022 21:48

If I was standing outside a shop with my dog and a cat sauntered within its range it would grab it . He's not at all aggressive, I've never even heard him bark or growl! As he has a high prey drive I muzzle in residential areas but not in his garden and I wouldn't on a high street either .

WTF - your varied reasoning makes no sense!

Furries · 21/07/2022 02:03

stillherenow · 19/07/2022 21:54

I can only speak for sighthounds but they're unbelievably placid and gentle and many adore children - mine does. But they've been trained to chase prey and also have the genetics and so they will do.

If a cat gets my garden and it kills it, I'd hate it but it's not mine or my dogs fault. I am careful out and about but same applies, if we're walking away from houses and a cat is within range that's also not my fault, it is the risk with letting cats out . I've had cats and I let them out knowing the risks.

If a cat gets into your garden, I agree (I’ve told my neighbour the same, thankfully my cat has no interest in heading over the fence!)

I disagree if you’re “out and about”. When doing so, your dog is meant to be under your control.

Furries · 21/07/2022 02:16

Cherrysoup · 19/07/2022 23:00

Mine have not had the opportunity to attack cats-we have good fences-but if there was one in the garden, they would try to get it. My puppies are far from aggressive, but anything small and fluffy=prey. No idea what type of dog you have, mine are very friendly and love other dogs, regardless of size. They have a prey drive, normal, given their breed. Cats, squirrels, rabbits, birds=prey. This is my fourth go round with the same breed, all of them have chased these 4 animals. How is a dog supposed to differentiate between cats and squirrels, for example?

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The hopeful thing is that you’d have them under control while out on walks. If so, not a problem!

If they’re killing any of those for animals whilst you’re out walking then not so good.

geonosis · 21/07/2022 02:18

American bulldogs have no place in the U.K. - there are hundreds looking for new homes where they have being dumped by an owner. The trouble with them is their immensely strong jaw and how they bite which is to hang on and tear. They also appeal to people who want to look tough through their dog and who bring them up badly making them dangerous to others. There’s a dog around my way regularly attacks other dogs. The owner is irresponsible. I have a different breed rescue dog who hates all other animals, especially cats but I would never allow her near the cats around my neighbourhood of which many wander through our garden. It’s called responsible dog ownership and I love all animals.

Cantbeliveyoufakeit · 21/07/2022 03:25

Lots of people seem to be mixing up American Bully XL's (a type of bull terrier) with American Bulldogs. They're entirely different breeds and it's the XL's which are the current 'status dog' of choice for irresponsible owners. Sorry to be pedantic but it's unfair to tar American Bulldogs with the same brush.

MiniTheMinx · 21/07/2022 11:50

Cantbeliveyoufakeit · 21/07/2022 03:25

This^

We need to be specific. Otherwise the stupidity and ignorance of the XL bully brigade coupled with the hysteria of people who can't tell one dog from another results in all bull breed dogs being under threat of being banned.

For those who would like this outcome I'd love you to suspend your distrust for long enough to meet my dog. He's pure muscle, is very strong for his size, has a very wide grin and a confident stride. He's full of energy and curiosity. But he's 13 flipping kg! hardly a dangerous beast, much less is he out of control, and he has shown no aggressive characteristics. He'd chase a cat, he couldn't kill a cat. He hid behind my husband when one got too close.

I would hate to see Boxers or Boston terriers banned, what bloody ridiculousness. I'm petrified of GSD but I'm not going to be saying or doing anything to argue they should be banned.

Bunny2006 · 21/07/2022 12:11

I work in a vets with a range of dogs and have nothing against any particular breed.
I have a 16 year old small (8kg) toy breed X rescue dog who sadly a previous owner thought it was a good idea to train him to chase cats. He's always been on the lead as he knows when a cat is near and he would chase them, I think he would just chase but it's not fair on the cat to be chased and possibly hurt. Also my dog could easily get hurt by a scratch from the cat or he'd run across roads etc. I can easily hold him due to his size and wouldn't get a dog larger than I could handle, sadly not everyone thinks about this.
Last week I was taking my dog to his hydrotherapy session for his arthritis, he gets tired so gets carried some of the way. I didn't see another dog coming but I picked him up as he was tiring and an American bully XL came charging at us, my dog is reactive to big dogs as he's scared, I instinctively turned my back and the dog barrelled into me nearly knocking me over and scratched my back (I'm also pregnant!). I could tell the dog was being friendly and wasn't scared of the breed as I generally see them as over excited and friendly, my partner got the dogs attention by fussing her so she'd leave me and my dog alone (who was shaking/growling/snapping), whilst shouting to the owner please get your dog back. Partner sent the dog back to her owner who tried to keep her with him but she soon came charging back and was jumping in my dogs face again who was biting her face. The owner was shouting don't worry she's friendly, we said ours isn't it and he finally ran over and held her by the collar and was shocked our dog was biting at her but even whilst being bitten she wanted to be his friend and wouldn't leave us! The owner said she's only 9 months old, I said I understand she's not a bad dog but being that over friendly and you have no control over her she needs to be on a lead, she would go up to any dog/person and cause a range of issues. He walked off holding her collar (not even sure he had a lead!!) saying to the dog that's naughty. I don't think he'll learn. Sadly it's owners regardless of breed and it's awful your neighbors cat has been killed. Cats roam and that's a risk yes but dogs shouldn't be one of them unless the cat frequents areas such as enclosed parks where dogs are more likely to be off lead acceptably.
Also for what it's worth I don't agree with training these 'protection dogs', there's a company round here who do and they import dogs with cropped ears such as rotties, Dobermans, cane corso, and others such as giant schnauzer and German shepherds. I just think it's unnecessary I can't think of any reason why anyone would need a specifically trained protection dog. But again the issue isn't with any of the dogs it's humans.

riesenrad · 21/07/2022 12:18

??? Cats are meant to roam.

Dogs are meant to be under close control at ALL times (not just if and when the owners feel like it).

Would you say the same about a child in a park getting killed by an out of control dog? Of course you wouldn't. Owners should make sure their pets don't injure people. The laws are not strict enough.

riesenrad · 21/07/2022 12:19

Owners should make sure their pets don't injure people or other pets

Not for the first time, I wish MN had an edit function!

Feelfreetocallme · 21/07/2022 17:26

People and other pets and wildlife. I don’t even allow my dog to chase rabbits never-mind other people’s cats.

Feelfreetocallme · 23/07/2022 17:11

I just remembered I only know one person with an American Bully although she’s a qualified dog trainer and behaviourist. He’s a lovely dog, abit nervous but he’s a rescue, and she knows how to handle him.

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