Dangerous dogs

[Poppyseed14]

My neighbours' cat was killed this week by two dogs outside our local shop. They were on a lead but being held by the owner's partner who wasn't able to control them. Think American Bully XL types. They take part in those training sessions where they are trained to attack the guy in the padded suit. Not a banned breed in the UK though larger and stronger than a pitbull. A few days ago an adult in Rotherham was killed by the same breed and her partner sustained life threatening injuries trying to get the dog off her. That was their family pet. I know it's all to do with the owners more so than the dogs themselves but I cannot get these awful situations out of my head. The death of the cat has shaken the local community as he was a well known and very much loved local character but it could so easily have been a child instead. And the owners will continue to endanger people and pets. No AIBU just venting really. Feeling so sad for my neighbours, they are understandably devastated.

It's completely different because the greyhound's owner can go out and buy a harness and walk their dog with a double leash strategy and know it can be fairly comfortably contained. They also have the option of using a muzzle to walk the dog in future.

The bull breed's owner cannot safely walk their animal in public without significant retraining, even with muzzles, because their dogs are capable of dragging them around and doing their own thing regardless of their handler's wishes.

These dogs can and do make great companions. However, they do need exercise, we used to have our Dobbies out in the fields all day. Bully xl is the same. We took her out all day in the woods and she was fine.
Some of these dog types aren't meant to be in the home either. You need room for them.

The fact is the woman who had these two dogs on leads had no control over them , that makes them dangerous .

I'd report to the police and RSPCA saying they are a banned breed that should get a response from one of them

A dog that attacks and kills a cat is definitely higher risk to small children than a dog that doesn’t kill cats FFS.

They aren't a banned breed in the UK.

But in both scenarios, the cat is already dead. So both owners had dogs who were, according to posters on here, aggressive and dangerous, and out of control. Why is it different because one is a greyhound and the other is a bull breed?

According to you, the greyhound can be appropriately trained, muzzled and leashed to prevent a re-occurrence - so why can't the same happen with the XL bully?

If it's strength alone you're concerned about, the muzzle would prevent the dog biting the cat, no?

But they're not a banned breed.

Exactly this.

Dogs which have been bred for their bite and aggression should be only able to be owned by people vetted by police. Just like if someone wants to own a gun. It is as dangerous.

A child died recently at a farm near here due to this type of dog.

Very little chance of restraint if they go for someone.

Unlike a greyhound or similar - yes prey drive but I hear of no deaths by greyhound/whippet as a) they are usually gentle around humans and b) one could haul them off reasonably easily, much less than a bully xl type.

Saying that, stats for dog bite and kids the worst 'offenders' are labs and retrievers as people don't expect them to react badly to a child and so don't watch interactions/police them and sometimes a child/dog interaction can go wrong. Not blaming any dog here. It's their people that's the problem, wanting to look a certain way.

So, I assume you believe that greyhound, spaniels, beagles, cairn terriers and. Dachshunds are all a high risk to children, then?

Because they are ALL breeds that have been bred to attack and kill small furry animals, many of them considerably larger than cats.

Nobody should own any dog that is so large or strong that it couldn’t be easily overpowered by an average strength human. Don’t care how friendly it is or how you have treated it. They shouldn’t be around the public. Even on a lead, if an extremely large or strong dog has its mind made up that it’s going to be attacking / running across a road etc then it will do and there is nothing you can do to stop it. Lead or not. They are animals- people seem to forget that they don’t have human brains- treat them like a child and then wonder why people and children are hurt or killed.

I didn't state they were , i'd report them as being one though

Actually, I didn't suggest the greyhound could be trained - a greyhound that chases and kills a cat may well not be trainable with cats in future. So please be more careful when reading posts, because you're accusing me of something I literally did not say or imply.

I said that these dogs are dangerous in the way that a loose greyhound isn't - there are appropriate mitigations to control a greyhound - a second leashing arrangement, possibly coupled with a muzzle. The bullies would require extensive training, which may or may not be possible, depending on owner and dogs, because their probably isn't solvable with a bit more kit. As I said in a previous post, any out of control dog is dangerous - whether it bites or not. Putting a muzzle on those bullies will not prevent them dragging their owner into traffic, or causing harm in other, similar ways.

If these dogs had slipped their leads, as the theoretical greyhound had, they would be equivalently dangerous, but to be able to kill a cat whilst on a lead and attached to their handler is really worrying.

No it isn't. A cat is not a gateway to the dog going on to attack children, or being some sort of predictor that it will eventually attack children.

As has been said several times, greyhounds are especially known to go for small furries, including cats. Are they disproportionally named as the breed that has attacked a person when that person presents to A&E? I thought not. They are not even in the top 10.

If banning dangerous dogs doesn’t work, then I’d like to see people be strictly liable for the acts of their dog, and the dog treated as an extension of the owner.

I.e., if your dog kills someone, then you’re charged with murder. Your dog killed a cat? You killed a cat.

People might be less inclined to buy powerful breeds if they are truly on the hook for their pets’ actions

@Soubriquet · Today 18:44

No not at all. I’m just saying people always seem
to blame the breed of the dog

Often it is the type of dog. You can nuture your dog and train it. But you can't take away their inbreed nature. And American bullies are derived from the American Pittbull.

In the UK the human fatalities are from the following breeds:

2000-2019
6 x American bulldog types
1 x neopoliton mastiff
2 x Bordeaux
7 x pitbulls
1 x jack russel
1 x presa canario
1 x malamute
1 x Lakeland terrier
9 x staffys
2 x German shepherds

Before this most of the fatalities were caused by Rottweilers, Dobermans, German Shepards and Huskies.

I was shocked reading the 2000-2019 list that it didn’t have any Rottweilers or Dobermans on as growing up they were the dangerous dogs.

But that’s proves that although certain breeds can obviously do a lot more damage than others, that it’s not just the breed that’s the issue.

In a few years other digs will be seen as status dogs and they’ll end up being seen as the most aggressive.

If we ban all bull breeds - American bulldogs, staffys, French bull dogs, British bulldogs, bull mastiffs etc.
Then we’re still left with the German shepherds, Rottweilers, Doberman’s etc and then if we ban them we’ll be left with the huskies and collies etc - it would literally never end.

We need to focus more on getting stricter rules for buying and selling dogs and less on what breed should be banned.

The trouble is they won’t be. The handlers ( the dog owners in this instance) really have to be well trained to interpret the signals their dog gives off as well as controlling the exercises the dogs have learnt. If you think of police dogs , not only are the dogs thoroughly assessed initially, they are constantly assessed during training and throughout their working lives. The police handlers are also thoroughly trained and constantly assessed. Sadly these dogs will not have any of those benefits, and the owners will have no assessment, no insurance, and only the training with the dogs given by………well, anyone really.

And why, if your dog is a pet, would you need to train it to attack a person in a padded suit? Why not use agility training, or even that cross country running with your dog attached ( can’t think of it’s name) as training tools.

Had to stop reading this thread as was getting too emotional. All I can say is my lovely cat was killed by a cocker spaniel and it was extremely traumatic for us and the dog owners, but the owners were ultimately at fault for allowing their untrained dog to run around unsupervised and off lead in the street. This dog wasn’t aggressive to people, but still guilty of being dangerously out of control and that was down to the owners. Dog owners (myself included) have a legal and moral responsibility to keep our dogs under control. People forget that dogs are predatory animals. I would never allow my own dog to attack another animal be that a squirrel, sheep, rabbit, cat or another dog.

A few months after my cat was attacked, a Pomeranian was attacked by a husky in the same area. The husky wasn’t aggressive to people, but clearly saw the small dog as prey and did was a predatory animals do… The dog behaved dangerously out of control and that in my opinion was down to the owner. I do wonder if any of the dog apologists on this forum think the Pomeranian’s owner should also have kept their dog on their own property? Take small dogs out at your own risk! No, didn’t think so. Moral of the story is we need tighter legislation on dog ownership. Dangerous dogs act is outdated and doesn’t work. It’s also very cruel on the dogs who end up as collateral damage but that’s another story.

I'm so sorry x @Feelfreetocallme

Or maybe folk should control their dogs when out in public? See my earlier post about the small dog that also got mauled. I have cats and a dog. Dog owners have a legal and moral responsibility to control their dogs. We should be able to let our cats out without worrying about them getting mailed by some idiot’s outs of control dog. Obviously different circumstances if it happens on private property. Still horrible in every circumstance. I would never let my dog kill anything. Staffie owner here.

Thank you. Miss him x

I’m sorry for the loss of your cat it must have been really traumatic but sadly if you let a cat roam then it being killed by a local dog is the chance you take and must accept as your own responsibility.

@Feelfreetocallme I bet you do. An illness etc is one thing but the shock of this is something else entirely. I have 2 indoor cats, I'm petrified that something could happen to them if they were out. But in my mind it was always getting hit by a car. This wouldn't even have entered my head. 😔 x

I agree dogs should be under control in public. I've never said they shouldn't be.

As for letting your dog kill something - what would happen if a cat came into your garden and your staffy got there before the cat could escape?

I don't know if I agree with this.

My dog goes absolutely nuts when she sees a cat on our walks. She's on a lead and I keep her under control but I definitely wouldn't want to say that let of the lead she wouldn't attack a cat.

However....she is as soft as a brush at home. We don't have DC but we do have four cats who she is very gentle with...I have no concerns leaving her in the house with our family cats.

Obviously the issue here is that dogs should always be under control in public spaces and if the owners partner wasn't strong enough to keep them under control she shouldn't have been in charge of them.