Dangerous dogs

[Poppyseed14]

My neighbours' cat was killed this week by two dogs outside our local shop. They were on a lead but being held by the owner's partner who wasn't able to control them. Think American Bully XL types. They take part in those training sessions where they are trained to attack the guy in the padded suit. Not a banned breed in the UK though larger and stronger than a pitbull. A few days ago an adult in Rotherham was killed by the same breed and her partner sustained life threatening injuries trying to get the dog off her. That was their family pet. I know it's all to do with the owners more so than the dogs themselves but I cannot get these awful situations out of my head. The death of the cat has shaken the local community as he was a well known and very much loved local character but it could so easily have been a child instead. And the owners will continue to endanger people and pets. No AIBU just venting really. Feeling so sad for my neighbours, they are understandably devastated.

Done properly by the right people and using the correct methods, bite training can be a powerful tool as it teaches dogs who like to bite, such as Belgian Malinois which truly do enjoy biting for fun, when it is appropriate to bite and when it is not; if the sleeve is on and the command is given, bite all you like, if it is not then keep your teeth to yourself.

I have 3 of these dogs and my eldest girl was attacked by a lab and the owner hit the dog and said what have I told you about this so clearly his Labrador has a form of this but no one ever seems to realise it’s any dog who can attack or turn it’s just the dogs have very bad press due to the sorts of people who own them it’s devastating to see how hated they are

You're arguing in favour of people not being able to control their animals and letting them eat cats?

This is also reason #152526 I don’t let my cats roam further than my own garden (I have specially angled fencing to keep them in); I trust my own dog with them but I don’t trust other dogs, or drivers, with their safety. Having lost a cat on the road as a child, I’ll never allow that to happen to another cat of mine ever again. My neighbours all have dogs of all different shapes and sizes, none of whom I know or trust enough to allow my cats to roam. Not only that, but one of my cats is a murderous bastard who would happily chomp his way through the local wildlife if allowed to.

I disagree with the statement that toddlers and babies don't trigger prey drive.
I used to have a dog, mixed breed probably Collie and German shepherd in there. She was highly intelligent, absolutely lovely with adults, fine with small children but she showed prey drive body language around babies. I would never have trusted her around a baby.

Also someone on another thread posted stats on fatal dog attacks in Canada - the majority were of dogs turning on babies and toddlers.

It's all very well saying blame the owners of pitbulls, bullies etc, and not the breed, but these dogs are bred to be powerful and IF a dog turns it's generally more dangerous being bitten by a dog that has a hugely powerful jaw and won't let go, than by a normal dog whose jaws can be prised open.

A dog that chases and hurts or kills an animal is acting on instinct - in the same way a cat that chases and kills a bird or mouse is acting on instinct.

Of course I'm not in favour of dogs being allowed to eat cats, but a prey drive is not the same thing as an aggressive streak, and it's incredibly unhelpful to suggest that it is.

These particular dogs may well be a danger to people, but that's not because they have a strong prey drive, it's because they're aggressive. They're two completely different things.

The owner is a big strapping muscular guy. I'd say from photos he's a body builder. The dogs have their own Instagram page full of videos of them being trained to attack. You can see him leaning back to hold them back in some of the videos as they are pulling him so hard. To leave them with a much smaller female to me beggars belief. Not even just one but two of them. Outside a busy local shop. Rightly or wrongly I find this neglectful and I'd be frightened to be in the vicinity if they were around.

I used to have a dog, mixed breed probably Collie and German shepherd in there. She was highly intelligent, absolutely lovely with adults, fine with small children but she showed prey drive body language around babies. I would never have trusted her around a baby.

Prey drive or herding language? They're very similar but not the same thing.

Also someone on another thread posted stats on fatal dog attacks in Canada - the majority were of dogs turning on babies and toddlers.

Yep, mainly because it's easier to kill a baby/toddler in comparison to an adult.

I'm not sure the dead cat knows the difference between prey drive and aggression

I cannot understand why these American Bully XLs aren’t on the banned breed list. BIL recently got one and I refuse to allow my kids to be around it. Dog mad in- laws are acting like I’m being OTT and said “When you meet the dog you’ll see how soft he is and will just fall in love”.

So DH and I met the dog, alone, and it was a great big slobbering out of control thing. I think they mean “won’t attack you” = “soft”. So it remains to be ‘no’ for our kids meeting it.

People who by these breeds are fucking selfish and stupid. No exceptions - you may as well get a tiger. Why is everyone surprised that dogs bred to kill, kill? There are dead children and parents because idiots want to look hard, and I seriously can’t believe this is allowed

Yeah that’s not properly training an attack dog

Thats him trying to be clever.

A properly trained attack dog will not only attack on command, but instantly leave it on command too

I'm sure the cat was similarly "aggressive" towards birds, mice and other small furry things. What's the difference between a dog doing it, and a cat doing it?

Did you just compare racism to a dangerous dog being classed as dangerous? Seriously?

I cannot understand why these American Bully XLs aren’t on the banned breed list.

Because banning breeds doesn't do anything to stop or prevent dog attacks. Since the Dangerous Dog Act came into force, we've actually seen an increase in fatal dog attacks, mostly from dogs who are kept perfectly legally.

Because the cat is someone's pet

Whatever the breed you have to wonderabout the motivation of someone who trains a dog to attack.

Years ago DDs friend lived next door to a family who used to train their dog to attack, they used to roll a piece of carpet around their arm so the dog grabbed hold of that. One day it got in to the next door garden where DDs friend was playing and she was badly bitten, poor kid. She was only 9.

I'd say it very much is the breed, they're not wired right imo. Or rather they're just exhibiting their natural instincts. Either way they aren't suitable as pets. You can't blame bad ownership exclusively.

Soubriquet, they are possibly trained to leave go on command and maybe they would have had the guy been in charge of them but the girl who had them was ill equipped to deal with them. Either way she shouldn't have had them with her. 😔

Greyhounds are known for a strong prey drive that has been trained into them. That is why many can not be rehomed with cats.
Because they can not be trusted with cats, does not make them aggressive.

One of cats killed our pet hamster. She was not aggressive. It was instinct.

It was instinct.

yeah, but any dog that attacks is only following their "instinct"

Yep, and the owners chose to let it out to roam and wander out of control.

That's the risk you take with outdoor cats. I'm not saying it's not horrible or sad, but the dog isn't necessarily dangerous for chasing a small furry thing.

If you don't want your cat at risk of being killed by a dog, don't let it out to roam. Mine stay in my cat-proofed garden precisely because I want to keep them safe from things like this.

Different instincts, though, which is the point people are trying to make.

These dogs may well be dangerous. I'm not saying otherwise. But prey drive isn't the same as human aggression. They are two different things.

Nonsense. I've got a sighthound. Her prey drive is insane, it's what she's bred to do. She'd kill a cat if it came near her. But she's the soppiest, most loving dog to humans, especially children.
We do everything we can to keep her away from small curries but if a cat comes in our garden whilst she is out there, I just pray the cat can get up a tree fast. She's not aggressive, she's just a dog.

A local pub cat was killed where we lived by a whippet. It was very sad, I'm very fond of the cat. The owner was devastated, but anyone who has sighthounds knows how quickly the situation can escalate - they're known escape artists from most leads and collars etc. The whippet is very unlikely to have even touched a child.
You can't compare all dogs or all scenarios.

I'd be fully supportive of licenses and vetting being required to own a dog of any breed, especially large powerful dogs that people do not understand. How awful.

I agree. Why do the dogs need to be able to attack in the first place?

I'm sorry about the little girl. My mum rehomed 2 chihuahuas a few years ago. They were the sweetest dogs, would sit on your lap for hours. We went over to visit her (different country) with my DD who would have been maybe 4 at the time. These 2 sweet dogs turned into demons around my daughter jumping and snapping at her face etc. They had never been around children before. Their previous owners were a child free couple, they hadn't been mistreated or anything, they were just not used to her. Now being the size they were they couldn't have done much damage but it was still frightening especially to a child and scary to see how easily a dog can turn. My mum thought she was going to have to put them into kennels for the week but they got used to my DD and they were OK. But we were still very nervous of them around her and wouldn't have left her alone with them even for a minute.