Go on fess up, who’s eating all the good graduates?

[Whatsyournameandwheredyoucomefrom]

I am currently interviewing grads for an entry level role in the marketing industry and SWEETMARYANDJOSEPH it’s tough going.

I’ve been taking in cohorts of grads for 10 years and in past years they were always keen to learn, chatty, determined to show the best of themselves and keen to know more about the industry. I’ve found graduate hiring to be a really
lovely thing; starting people off on their careers is something I love to do.

This year is bloody horrendous. I’ve done 23 interviews so far (5 roles available) and bar 2, without exception there’s zero enthusiasm or ‘self selling’, it’s more like I’m asking them to do a household chore and they’re getting pocket money in return - it’s ‘well if I really must do this job, what’s in it for me’. For example today a 21 year old cut me off mid sentence as I was talking about possible career progression through the industry and said ‘yeah I’m probably not thinking about that right now, I’m just figuring out what industry I want to get into right now you know? Like what is it about XXXX (that industry I’ve been in my entire career) that you think is worth pursuing because I could do basically anything and be fine you know?’ - very nearly snapped ‘this is an interview not a careers fair’ but held my tongue. Another told me £22k was basically slavery (her exact words) and she couldn’t work for less than £30k - not even graduated yet ffs. Also, oop norf so no London premium either.

I’m not expecting gratitude for the interview, I don’t even expect them to know anything about the industry and I’ll pay them £22k for the privilege of being fairly useless for a year while they learn. They can be earning £30k in 2 years with the training they get at the early stages through this role and I’ve had some go one to £50k+ in that time and yet almost without exception, none of the grads this year have turned up to the interview with any indication that they actually want the job.

What is this?? Is someone sweeping up all the driven, good candidates and paying them megabucks? Or are universities setting mad expectations on salary and not teaching interview skills?

I’m 35 so it’s not like I’m totally out of touch and feel a bit daft saying it but is this a generational thing? Covid?? WHAT IS HAPPENING?

Was on your side until the 22k salary. 40hrs a week at minimum wage is almost 20k

i could have written this OP. I’ve been trying to recruit a graduate marketing role and we offered £25k based either in London or at home, we had one incredible applicant but dear god the utter dross CVs and more broadly just no personality, no drive in the others. I’ve also been trying off and on to recruit post school-graduates and it’s the same, I have also had three tell me about their mental health diagnoses and adaptations required before persuading me they might be the right one for the job. I’m also your age so also don’t feel massively out of touch but the difference in how my peers were Is stark. I mean I have my own diagnoses but I wouldn’t dream of disclosing them to a potential employer in the first few mins of an interview.

Doesn’t include bank holidays and also doesn’t include between Christmas and new year which we also get off for free, or if you have to work it you get paid double time.

I'm in finance (accounting, advisory) and am getting more or less exclusively visa candidates so my firm is paying a few thousand to sponsor their visa. I suspect our starting salary is too low and we are not the "big 4".I am getting good candidates though.

With rent at £1000 per month in Manchester plus needing deposit etc how can people afford to live?

Youngsters these days are degenerate thickos.

They care only about Instagram and TikTok.

DS girlfriend has been applying for the last month for a position like this from Yorkshire to Manchester. Been told that there's no openings except for one employer who will take her on in September but as an intern which she cannot afford because of transport costs

Awwww, that’s so nice 🥰

Sounds okay to me and I'm Home Counties. You'd expect a graduate to have enough about them to think 'get the job then negotiate the salary' or 'it's a foot on the ladder." Or even just to treat the interview as practice and try to do well.
35 hours is quite a short week for full time and with hybrid working to reduce commute time.

Hang in there OP, opening up the job to include non-graduates was a good move. Hope you find a diamond.

The average graduate marketing salary is 26k
That's the national average

Have you had an undiagnosed DID candidate yet? He told me he was interviewing as one of his alters but others in the system may not want to work so he’d need last minute time off if he wasn’t ‘fronting’.

I think it’s a tiktok thing from the internet rabbit hole I ended up in after that one. AND he came to the teams invite in a shirt. I had high hopes.

Ok Boomer.

Oh, this. In spades. With lockdown, they didn't even have part-time jobs in Starbucks to develop an understanding of working. I've been interviewing graduates recently and a lot of them have nothing to talk about, simply because they haven't had any opportunities to do stuff. My recent placement student needed coaching on the basics like time management (if the 8.15 train gets in late most days, you need to get an earlier one).
I think we'll be in for a few years of low calibre graduates until they're all back in physical lectures, working in Wetherspoons part-time and wages catch up with inflation.

I’m in manc! Send me a DM and I’ll send the job posting!

We recruited a couple of months ago and had a really limited batch to choose from by comparison with the grads we hired in early 2020: we're offering a lot more money than you are but in London in a historically high paying area.

The lad we picked in the end is good enough but far less polished than his peers from earlier years. It was partly down to the time of year we were looking though - the cream of the 2021 graduates had been snapped up.

"Like what is it about XXXX (that industry I’ve been in my entire career) that you think is worth pursuing"

So basically doing what we're all told to do which is interviewing you too. I keep hearing 'you're interviewing them as a potential employer too' and it's generally bs, but in a tight labour market...

That is an insane benefit then OP - you're essentially offering the equivalent of a 9 day fortnight or even a bit less than that for full time pay!

45 days + 3 days between Christmas and New year + 8 BHs = 56 days off per year.

If you worked 4 days per week you'd expect to work 208 days per year less holiday of say 27 days plus BH for full time (so 28 inc BH for 4 days) would be 180 days - in a normal job.

for 5 days a week it would be 225 days

for you at full time it's 204 days - so approx a 9 day fortnight equivalent as a minimum. Would you be better off flagging it like that in the adverts, as if you multiply the salary up to 10/9ths then it's 24.5k which is a more attractive FTE if that makes sense?

I think the salary is low, but also, those graduating now haven't had the full university experience, they haven't done university life, which is where a lot of the "attitude" you' relooking for comes from. A friend's DS is just finishing his 2nd year and has decided he doesn't have the confidence for a year in industry - he's never met any of his "classmates".

FWIW DS2 left school at 16yo and is earning £21k on an apprenticeship.

DS1 has a couple of very poor Alevels, is on a structured career progression scheme with a bakery and earning £23k at 20yo, with expectations of £40k within 3 years. Neither particularly high earning sectors or high achieving DC.

I was earning £22k without a degree/qualification a few years ago. It's still the starting salary at that company for many roles as well.

It really is a low salary.

My first role after qualifying will be 30k which is high in my industry which isn't particularly well paid. You are paying peanuts. Also it's a pandemic thing many people are realising you work to live. Many people aren't arsed or thrilled at the prospect of a career.

You’re paying a low wage and expecting bright high achieving graduates. No wonder no one is applying

Gosh that’s not a poor salary. A friend of mine started at KPMG regional office on 21k in 2019.

if you PM me the role I can pass it on to some creative grads I know through my husbands DFA. All good eggs.

£22k is a very small amount of money to actually live on. I'd hazard a guess that those people who think its doable are being topped up with benefits/universal credits/housing support.

This is a really really good point. They’ve not really been ‘grown up’ through the experience - I think then potentially my no degree required policy might actually produce applicants with more of the soft skills I need - they’re likely to have worked even a little bit through covid.

My son whilst not a graduate (did go to Uni though, got into a bad relationship and is more or less one modual short) has been doing marketing interviews for ages. He gets the interview, has an extensive portfolio and is always enthusiastic. The last one he had two interviews for and has still heard nothing back despite countless emails. This is a current theme. He has the experience and right now would bit your hand off for £14k but doubt he is in your area. He is looking in Glasgow. It has been soul destroying for him. He was furloughed then made redundant and has been trying out his own business which isn't paying the bills. Not always the employees fault.

This with bells on, it's everywhere, including nursing