Go on fess up, who’s eating all the good graduates?

[Whatsyournameandwheredyoucomefrom]

I am currently interviewing grads for an entry level role in the marketing industry and SWEETMARYANDJOSEPH it’s tough going.

I’ve been taking in cohorts of grads for 10 years and in past years they were always keen to learn, chatty, determined to show the best of themselves and keen to know more about the industry. I’ve found graduate hiring to be a really
lovely thing; starting people off on their careers is something I love to do.

This year is bloody horrendous. I’ve done 23 interviews so far (5 roles available) and bar 2, without exception there’s zero enthusiasm or ‘self selling’, it’s more like I’m asking them to do a household chore and they’re getting pocket money in return - it’s ‘well if I really must do this job, what’s in it for me’. For example today a 21 year old cut me off mid sentence as I was talking about possible career progression through the industry and said ‘yeah I’m probably not thinking about that right now, I’m just figuring out what industry I want to get into right now you know? Like what is it about XXXX (that industry I’ve been in my entire career) that you think is worth pursuing because I could do basically anything and be fine you know?’ - very nearly snapped ‘this is an interview not a careers fair’ but held my tongue. Another told me £22k was basically slavery (her exact words) and she couldn’t work for less than £30k - not even graduated yet ffs. Also, oop norf so no London premium either.

I’m not expecting gratitude for the interview, I don’t even expect them to know anything about the industry and I’ll pay them £22k for the privilege of being fairly useless for a year while they learn. They can be earning £30k in 2 years with the training they get at the early stages through this role and I’ve had some go one to £50k+ in that time and yet almost without exception, none of the grads this year have turned up to the interview with any indication that they actually want the job.

What is this?? Is someone sweeping up all the driven, good candidates and paying them megabucks? Or are universities setting mad expectations on salary and not teaching interview skills?

I’m 35 so it’s not like I’m totally out of touch and feel a bit daft saying it but is this a generational thing? Covid?? WHAT IS HAPPENING?

Tbh I agree with others, you want a Bentley but have the budget for a Skoda.

my own grad scheme (circa 9 yrs ago) started at 25k. After 2 years I was earning closer to 40k

Paid sick leave is not a benefit. And how can annual leave be truly unlimited? Could your employee go off on AL for the entirety of their job?

I graduated over a decade ago and would have found £22k to be on the lower end of salaries back then.
Even if this is high for marketing (and I suspect it isn't), even marketing grads are not limited to marketing.
I started my career in one of the big 4 back in the day and there graduates from all sorts of discipline. At least one person in my cohort had gotten in with a degree in media studies (which was considered the height of "Mickey mouse" degrees at the time).

The average graduate marketing salary is 26k

Maybe look outside of a single competitor to gauge

Unlimited annual leave isn't awesome because people don't know where they are. Better to be generous with the allowance, eg 6 or 7 weeks rather than 5 (and bank holidays) and encourage employees to take it all.

But that’s not new? I was a grad, started on £16k in 2010 after gcse, a level and a degree. Not sure what minimum wage was back then, but I certainly couldn’t have bought a house, paid rent alone etc.

Ooh Job what doing?

I'm similar to a pp - lots of qualifications but earning peanuts in third sector.

At least one person in my cohort had gotten in with a degree in media studies (which was considered the height of "Mickey mouse" degrees at the time)

It's anything but mickey mouse. We wouldn't have the useless "government" we've got if more people had an understanding of media (and politics).

So the policy is you have a 7 week minimum (45 days) that you’re paid for if you don’t take in 12 months, then you get unlimited paid leave on top if you want it.

There is a lot of anti-work, anti-capitalism sentiment with the younger generation. Striving to climb the corporate ladder just isn't as appealing as it used to be.

Obviously not. It's quite a popular perk in tech. You're expected to act like an adult and, of course, deliver high results. Most people continue to take an appropriate amount.

This is helpful - is that in the north?

Where are you based? I've taken a job as a marketing coordinator earlier this year but I'm actually a graphic designer. I couldn't get a design role for love nor money even though I have bags of freelance experience since graduating as a mature student in 2020 My pay is abysmal though, only 20k for 37.5hrs a week.

I'd also say that it's not necessarily a bad thing not to be interested in progression. I know some employers have an "up or out" policy but you need people to do the grunt work, so it's not a bad thing to have unambitious but reliable people as well as the ones who want to be the future CEOs.

Also, graduates are just interested in getting a job now. They're not thinking about 5 or 10 years hence.

It's a gimmick! Started by the big tech companies in America I think. Reality was it was VERY frowned upon to take more than 3 weeks and employee would probably have lost their job

What industry is that though?

@Whatsyournameandwheredyoucomefrom the north is a big place, but take a look at job boards, there are graduate marketing roles up north starting on 35-50k

www.totaljobs.com/jobs/graduate-marketing/in-north-east

Which is usually considerably less than the normal 25 days plus bank holidays.

Unlimited annual leave is something that a lot of us companies do, but studies found that it usually goes hand in hand with people taking significantly less and generates a culture of presentism. As a young grad, I'm not sure it's a perk.

I did a grad scheme in engineering in the North 12 years ago. Starting salary then was £29k.

Agree that people are generally fed up after a long few years. With inflation so high, 22k really doesn't seem to be enough to inspire the best graduates tbh. Perhaps you need to ramp up your university relationships for next year's intake?

This was bound to start coming up when the majority of graduates are now saddled with massive debt. It's very little to do with Covid

Maybe your interview process is wearing people down? STAR interviews are terrible, you'll never get good, enthusiastic answers by interrogating people.

Agree with others saying that the salary is far too low for a graduated. I graduated 15 years ago and my first job paid 28k.

With the way that everything is going up, 22k is barely enough to live on.

*for a graduate

Not the case for us, you have a minimum entitlement to 45 days per year, then you can take as many days on top of that as you like. You’re strongly encouraged to take your 45, but asked to book big blocks of leave in advance (anything longer than a week is asked to be booked 3 months in advance but even that’s not set in stone, it’s manager discretion and usually granted) Then you have unlimited days you can take on top of your blocked out 45 days for childcare needs, days out, sunny days etc whatever you need. If you don’t take your full 45, you get paid for them in December.

Whether it’s in the north or not, graduates tend to be more willing to move around the country for the right job/salary than experienced hires. This is a factor that needs to be considered.