Go on fess up, who’s eating all the good graduates?

[Whatsyournameandwheredyoucomefrom]

I am currently interviewing grads for an entry level role in the marketing industry and SWEETMARYANDJOSEPH it’s tough going.

I’ve been taking in cohorts of grads for 10 years and in past years they were always keen to learn, chatty, determined to show the best of themselves and keen to know more about the industry. I’ve found graduate hiring to be a really
lovely thing; starting people off on their careers is something I love to do.

This year is bloody horrendous. I’ve done 23 interviews so far (5 roles available) and bar 2, without exception there’s zero enthusiasm or ‘self selling’, it’s more like I’m asking them to do a household chore and they’re getting pocket money in return - it’s ‘well if I really must do this job, what’s in it for me’. For example today a 21 year old cut me off mid sentence as I was talking about possible career progression through the industry and said ‘yeah I’m probably not thinking about that right now, I’m just figuring out what industry I want to get into right now you know? Like what is it about XXXX (that industry I’ve been in my entire career) that you think is worth pursuing because I could do basically anything and be fine you know?’ - very nearly snapped ‘this is an interview not a careers fair’ but held my tongue. Another told me £22k was basically slavery (her exact words) and she couldn’t work for less than £30k - not even graduated yet ffs. Also, oop norf so no London premium either.

I’m not expecting gratitude for the interview, I don’t even expect them to know anything about the industry and I’ll pay them £22k for the privilege of being fairly useless for a year while they learn. They can be earning £30k in 2 years with the training they get at the early stages through this role and I’ve had some go one to £50k+ in that time and yet almost without exception, none of the grads this year have turned up to the interview with any indication that they actually want the job.

What is this?? Is someone sweeping up all the driven, good candidates and paying them megabucks? Or are universities setting mad expectations on salary and not teaching interview skills?

I’m 35 so it’s not like I’m totally out of touch and feel a bit daft saying it but is this a generational thing? Covid?? WHAT IS HAPPENING?

The salary is fine. My organisation pays much less and mostly we get brilliant graduates.

However one thing I’ve noticed this time is that so many have talked about their poor mental health. On the one hand it’s great that it’s not taboo but it just felt a bit strange at interview.

Yes, common sense lost alongside everything else

What was the starting salary last year? What % have you increased it by?
I work in a low pay sector and the quality of candidates is dropping as we have been unable to keep pace with salary expectations. Existing staff are leaving for roles paying 25% more. My 20 years of experience and professional qualifications are earning me a graduate +2-3 years salary. Time to weigh up whether I join in with jumping ship or live with the wage deflation and ever reducing quality/experience of colleagues.

She said the “marketing industry”. Is that meant to mean agencies?

But also 22k isn't amazing for a grand salary. You arent going time attract the better end of the candidates. Also what are you interviewing for at this time of year? The better schemes/organised companies recruit from autumn of third year, if you are hiring now for September you will be raking up the dregs.

Cost of living has gone up massively in the last 12 months and is set to get worse. Yet you're paying a smidge above minimum wage and acting like you're doing them a favour.

I'm glad graduates have their heads screwed on and aren't falling for the "opportunity" of being office dogsbody for a couple of years.

This is bollocks surely?

Pre-pandemic, starting was £17k! 35 hours a week, minimum wage for over 23’s is £9.50, that’s about £16k isn’t it not £19k?

Paid sick leave, unlimited annual leave (it’s awesome) and flexible/ hybrid working too.

Our rate is in line with the industry and location, we’re actually paying more than our biggest competitor (they’re paying £19k starting) and we have better benefits.

so what are other industries paying and specifically which industries (degree subjects are non specific, so it’s not like they’ve studied marketing)

also yes, I’m absolutely going to hire non grads. I opened the job description today after much arguing with the SLT.

I agree.

Glad you put a trigger warning on that uncomfortable opinion

It really isn’t.

No it’s not a low salary for marketing in the north.
DD started in a similar job 3 years ago on £20k and that seemed pretty average for all jobs she applied for.
It’s not London for all of those people who seem unclear on this fact.

22k rising to 30k in 2 years used to be a good salary for a graduate. With rising rents and rising house prices, as well as the cost of living crisis, it's no longer so great. I've seen charity jobs that pay more than that where a degree isn't required - charity jobs where there is the opportunity to progress to higher level jobs.

People are tired. They've worked hard on the conveyer belt of GCSEs, A Levels and university and some have done unpaid internships and voluntary work as well. They get their degree and find the jobs available are all paying shit wages. What's the point?

Of course, there are also some graduates who have only just scraped through and are lacking enthusiasm, manners and social and communication skills.

Can I apply OP? I’ve got a degree, 3 masters and currently earn £26.5k after redundancy and a career change. I’m nearly 50 but very adaptable.

Unlimited annual leave?!

Whereabouts in the North OP?

Unlimited annual leave? How does that work then?

The salary is fine. My organisation pays much less and mostly we get brilliant graduates.

Just because you're fine paying low salaries in your business/industry doesn't mean OP is. Tonmeisters work at Abbey Road for minimum wage - but they sure as hell wouldn't touch a less prestigious establishment unless the pay was a lot higher. Money isn't everything to everyone - but if OP is paying a low-as-hell salary, explicitly told it's too low by candidates and can't find someone good enough then it's almost a certainty that the problem is the salary and not the entire year's cohort of graduates.

I also have a degree, and recent experience in marketing! Where do I apply?

My husband went for a job as a volunteer liason at a Top London Museum and they were offering £24k, about £6k less than his current role (but without all the back breaking work and politics of his current place). That's with London weighting included! The recruiter was honest, there's no money in the Arts and Culture and it would be limited overtime etc. He hitting 50 soon. So if the marketing role was in that sector I'd understand but law, finance, or retail then absolutely not. OP needs to find more money or dangle the carrot of OT and Career Progression in front of them or they'll get nowhere.

When you claim paid sick leave as a benefit you know you're in trouble.

You've had feedback from candidates, the salary is too low. They have answered your question for you.

Most starting at an agency with no degree will be on more than 22k.

I've just started a graduate role in the north on 30k progressing to 41k in 2 years so maybe salary is the deciding factor here... I wouldn't have gone to interview for 22k so at least I wouldn't have wasted your time.

Also, outside a few specific industries “£30k in 2 years” is a very normal graduate wage. Have a look at salaries on employment websites.

Sometimes you have to take a low salary to get on the ladder though. Many years ago when I started out I did voluntary work, followed by cash in hand, before settling into a better paid position (with a career pivot).

Graduates are expensive as they are time consuming - from a business perspective if you break even in the first year you are doing well.

It's not that difficult to understand surely

Annual leave...but unlimited

Many companies offer this these days

I also have the unpopular opinion that much that this may be true of many youngsters, a lot if not most, employers think they are doing people a favour by hiring them, rather than realising that they'd be nothing about talented employees. It works both ways.

It doesn’t, in reality most people take less annual leave when it’s unlimited than when they have a set number to take