Go on fess up, who’s eating all the good graduates?

[Whatsyournameandwheredyoucomefrom]

I am currently interviewing grads for an entry level role in the marketing industry and SWEETMARYANDJOSEPH it’s tough going.

I’ve been taking in cohorts of grads for 10 years and in past years they were always keen to learn, chatty, determined to show the best of themselves and keen to know more about the industry. I’ve found graduate hiring to be a really
lovely thing; starting people off on their careers is something I love to do.

This year is bloody horrendous. I’ve done 23 interviews so far (5 roles available) and bar 2, without exception there’s zero enthusiasm or ‘self selling’, it’s more like I’m asking them to do a household chore and they’re getting pocket money in return - it’s ‘well if I really must do this job, what’s in it for me’. For example today a 21 year old cut me off mid sentence as I was talking about possible career progression through the industry and said ‘yeah I’m probably not thinking about that right now, I’m just figuring out what industry I want to get into right now you know? Like what is it about XXXX (that industry I’ve been in my entire career) that you think is worth pursuing because I could do basically anything and be fine you know?’ - very nearly snapped ‘this is an interview not a careers fair’ but held my tongue. Another told me £22k was basically slavery (her exact words) and she couldn’t work for less than £30k - not even graduated yet ffs. Also, oop norf so no London premium either.

I’m not expecting gratitude for the interview, I don’t even expect them to know anything about the industry and I’ll pay them £22k for the privilege of being fairly useless for a year while they learn. They can be earning £30k in 2 years with the training they get at the early stages through this role and I’ve had some go one to £50k+ in that time and yet almost without exception, none of the grads this year have turned up to the interview with any indication that they actually want the job.

What is this?? Is someone sweeping up all the driven, good candidates and paying them megabucks? Or are universities setting mad expectations on salary and not teaching interview skills?

I’m 35 so it’s not like I’m totally out of touch and feel a bit daft saying it but is this a generational thing? Covid?? WHAT IS HAPPENING?

Probably cause the "oldsters" made getting on the housing ladder of having a quality of life impossible.

Bet you didn't think about that though, it's always young people this and that. Let them bloody have something that's actually free and can distract them from the shit world they inherited from previous generations.

I don't understand why so many people are saying £30k after 2 years is a poor graduate wage when £31k is the national full-time UK average?!

Yep, it’s nuts and brilliant

Unfortunately I’m not allowed to mess with how we talk about the benefits package as it’s all dictated from on high - I’ll make the suggestion though.

This. They’ve paid tens of thousands and three years to get a degree, they expect to get more that 2.5k above shelf stacking, even right out of the gate. 22k was about what (admittedly good) GTS’ offered when I graduated. (I was crazy jealous of a friend who got one) I’m 44.

Student numbers peaked in 2018. I think you may have to look at your pay and conditions if you want better candidates.

Have you considered that asking for a degree in a field that doesn't need one, for a low salary, is a bit silly?

I’m a lecturer. Our graduates are fucking knackered. They’ve had a shit university experience. Lots of them have really struggled financially because they couldn’t work during lockdown, they struggled to get placements, they couldn’t easily get academic support - all those impromptu conversations that happen in seminars and in corridors vanished. Lots of them want to do masters in order to have the proper student experience and to give themselves better earning power. There’s a real element of ‘learned helplessness’ about many of them, like they’ve been punched in the face. £22k might be fine, but it’s hardly enough to get them enthused and excited. The need to do stuff that’s engaging, exciting, intellectually rewarding, fosters engagement, and because lots of them have a fucktonne of debt combined with the cost of living crisis, it also needs to be financially worthwhile.

grad marketing starting jobs were 26k 4 years ago where i worked - for a national company - so they would have got this in the north too. My son's starting salary was 23 k last year (in the south in a fairly low paying area of the country). He took this because he could live at home, but wouldnt of otherwise

In marketing, it is very low.

I earn £27k doing basic warehouse work....in Yorkshire. It's slightly better paid than other warehouses round here but even so, they can't get staff in.

At the last warehouse I worked in they cut the pay of the junior managers by a whacking five grand a year - this was last year - and watched in surprise as half of them left to go to other companies and a good proportion of the rest went back to operative level, because at least doing that they'd get a bonus on top of their hourly rate, which made them, erm, better paid than their managers.

£22k is not a liveable wage any more. Wakey wakey.

Yep, or at least plays a big part.

£22k isn't 'peanuts' when you have training and what seems like an almost guaranteed trajectory to £30k.

Not really nursing all the people I've worked with are fine and get on with the job. I do think people are more open to questioning authority and critical thinking which isn't necessarily a bad thing. People are definitely more motivated by good wages which is a good thing.

This!!

Whats your progression opportunities though? Do you receive training as part of your current role that will enable you to move up the ranks, and realistically be earning double that in a few years?

Because it's not. Average full time is over 38k and this includes all the uneducated, unskilled workers

I work in finance and we can’t get grads / school leavers either. I think it’s because 10 years ago there weren’t many formal grad schemes/ apprenticeships and so there wasn’t much competition. Now unemployment is low and there are lots of brilliant apprenticeships.
also because we don’t pay enough, which I keep telling our leadership.

It’s a employee led market and they know it. If you don’t want them - someone else does and probably for more money, better flexibility, stronger perks etc. there’s no panic about getting a job post uni anymore, they know they’ll get something! The tables really have turned on who’s trying to impress who!

My recent placement student needed coaching on the basics like time management (if the 8.15 train gets in late most days, you need to get an earlier one).

Don't they learn this stuff at secondary school, when they're responsible for getting themselves there on time each day?

This.

You’re not paying enough!

Salary is too low, it pretty much is slavery. And why shouldn’t they be interviewing you and asking what’s in it for them? It’s a very tight job market currently so why should they settle for some micky mouse paycheck? Maybe don’t be disparaging of salary feedback when you get it?

It really isn’t - you can book your 45 days in any configuration you want, we just ask for 3 months notice if you’re booking 2 weeks or more and even that is discretionary - so as long as there’s cover, you can book it whenever as long as you’ve agreed with your manager. If you’re booking a week you can book it whenever. Once your 45 days are used up, you can then take as many additional days as you like but no more than 5 in a row (again, discretionary) so basically, you’re main 45 days is for holidays, your blocks of leave through the year that you book in advance because you’re planning something, then you have as many days as you like additional to that for day trips, family time, duvet days, mental health days, glasto etc etc whatever you need. You also don’t need to use these days for dental, hospital, GP etc appointments - that’s a different type of leave that’s also paid.

I think somebody probably is scooping up all the really bright go getter graduates and paying them "megabucks", if your definition of megabucks is anything over 22k. Yes, they might not be going into your industry in your local area, but they are probably just choosing more lucrative sectors. Plenty of industries and occupations do pay graduates more than £22k, and it's not an employer's market atm. £22k rising to £30k after two years really isn't all that great, in a job seekers market it's not surprising they're not biting your hand off. If you don't pay well, the employers that do will have the pick of the better graduates, and you'll be left with what's left.

This is what my starting salary was 4 years ago and they didn't require a degree. Same field.

Cost of living has gone up massively. House prices are shocking. OP you're delusional expecting people to be excited or grateful for a salary like this.

Not to mention, it's a job, you're not giving them money. They have to give up most of their time to work for your company. It's hardly some kind of incredible deal, of course you should be paying for their time and work.

Hmmm, I'm clearly in the minority here but I wish I was more like that when I was starting out. And yeh, the salary is pittance- my starting salary was £28k more than a decade ago so I don't blame the young lady for saying she wouldn't work for under £30k! I guess some people know their worth. I used to approach job interviews trying to impress, but now I also expect the employer to impress me.

If the issue is the actual quality of the graduate, obviously the abysmal pay is the main factor. Why would anybody with a half decent degree want to work for that?

That’s certainly the impression they’re giving!

More bloody power to them, I just wish I was one of them and not trying to hire the buggers