Go on fess up, who’s eating all the good graduates?

[Whatsyournameandwheredyoucomefrom]

I am currently interviewing grads for an entry level role in the marketing industry and SWEETMARYANDJOSEPH it’s tough going.

I’ve been taking in cohorts of grads for 10 years and in past years they were always keen to learn, chatty, determined to show the best of themselves and keen to know more about the industry. I’ve found graduate hiring to be a really
lovely thing; starting people off on their careers is something I love to do.

This year is bloody horrendous. I’ve done 23 interviews so far (5 roles available) and bar 2, without exception there’s zero enthusiasm or ‘self selling’, it’s more like I’m asking them to do a household chore and they’re getting pocket money in return - it’s ‘well if I really must do this job, what’s in it for me’. For example today a 21 year old cut me off mid sentence as I was talking about possible career progression through the industry and said ‘yeah I’m probably not thinking about that right now, I’m just figuring out what industry I want to get into right now you know? Like what is it about XXXX (that industry I’ve been in my entire career) that you think is worth pursuing because I could do basically anything and be fine you know?’ - very nearly snapped ‘this is an interview not a careers fair’ but held my tongue. Another told me £22k was basically slavery (her exact words) and she couldn’t work for less than £30k - not even graduated yet ffs. Also, oop norf so no London premium either.

I’m not expecting gratitude for the interview, I don’t even expect them to know anything about the industry and I’ll pay them £22k for the privilege of being fairly useless for a year while they learn. They can be earning £30k in 2 years with the training they get at the early stages through this role and I’ve had some go one to £50k+ in that time and yet almost without exception, none of the grads this year have turned up to the interview with any indication that they actually want the job.

What is this?? Is someone sweeping up all the driven, good candidates and paying them megabucks? Or are universities setting mad expectations on salary and not teaching interview skills?

I’m 35 so it’s not like I’m totally out of touch and feel a bit daft saying it but is this a generational thing? Covid?? WHAT IS HAPPENING?

Why bother? Maybe don't bother applying for anything then - which sounds a bit like giving up on life. Maybe people have but they are no good to us then as employees, they need to be a little more resilient than that.

BS that the boomer generation have trashed the system. We were the first to read Small is Beautiful, we were quick to recycle, and take planet health seriously. At 66, I have a dependent adult and a demented parent, both of whom require constant nurturing. Yes, we bought a family home when we were two 42-y-o earning adults pre-child, and yes, its value has increased since, but MIL's care soaks up £50k annually (the proceeds of selling the family house), and my DM ekes out her basic state pension with pension credit and family help, having worked in mental health care until she was 78 years old. I'm not really getting the generational envy.

I was responding r.e general sentiment among university students. Who have paid a lot of money to study. And expect something for it:

Maybe we should go back to university only being for the truly academic and stop making everything into a degree. Pay people to train. Then you won’t have this problem.

It’s the purple sprouting broccoli who are eating all the decent grads (or the triffids). Honestly guv!!

Well, they are nowhere to be seen to be honest.
most just gave up studying throughout the pandemic and refuse to leave the house for less than 30k to start with, just like you said, they think is slavery and refuse to work and be an employee when they can just stay at home and find anything on line that will give them “enough” to survive a minimalist life style. Sad really!!
I graduated and have many many certificates and diplomas, never stopped studying, early 40’s, 3 languages and the best I could find was a £21k job :(

Maybe you should give the opportunity for people with more experience that is really looking for a career?
i would :)

good luck !

In your early 40s with three languages, you should be applying for tri-lingual PA jobs. Suggest your family follow your job.

Well, aí believe that this has already changed now, or will change soon ?
I’ve heard that benefits will count towards you mortgage ?
I can be wrong

I never thought about it.
I’m sorry but what do you mean suggest my family follow my job ? i will have a look into this. Thank you :)

I am in the graduating class of 2022 but as a mature student rather than in my 20s. From what I have seen there has been much less opportunity for this graduating class to actually grow up and get out in the world. So many of us ended up doing more than half of our degree online that those in student accommodation moved back home.

i started September 2019 and all was normal until January-February 2020 when the uni had strikes so classes cancelled and then covid hit and it was online only until my third year which became blended between online and in person but social activities etc were limited. for me this isn’t a huge issue in terms of life experience because I’m 33 I had a job working from apprentice to senior admin for 7 years before being a stay at home mum and I have my own life experiences and social life outside of uni. I just wanted a degree to help prove I could still learn new things after a few years of being a stay at home mum. But for these kids? That window of time where they leave the nest and get life experience didn’t really happen as it normally would.

Because there is a massive shortage of labour.

So many graduates have a sense of entitlement. Won't get out if bed

So many graduates think they are worth at least £30k even with no experience. Such a, sense of entitlement. The last interview I was involved in was for an office manager. Like you, we had a young woman who told us we were paying peanuts and she would only take the job if we paid her £32k. My salary as a researcher with 40 years experience. Her experience... Studying for a BSc in sociology and a summer job picking fruit!!
We turned down a young man who failed the practical and his mother phoned to harangue us for turning down such a talented person!

Thanks from a mum with a DS who has just graduated. They really have had the strangest three years. I'm so sad for them

In my opinion you are being a bit unreasonable by gossipping.
I think you should be respecting their confidentiality and keeping them private.

I was a mature student and couldn’t get on any grad programme. Pointless doing a degree.

DB has 1 more year of uni left and wants to go into marketing after he graduates. He's had a look on job sites recruiting this year's graduates, to get an idea of what might be available next year too. He commented that there's a real range of salaries for marketing grad schemes. Lots are around what you pay, but some are around £40k. You may be in line with lots of competitors but still losing the very best candidates.

DBro is very interested in companies with opportunities to transfer abroad, so I'll DM you if that's ok!

I'm a secondary school teacher and many of us have noticed that our students seem about 2 years less mature than students before covid, even where they're on track academically. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same at universities.

I started on £22k as a grad…market research agency (the biggest one there is OP, you’ll know it). Wasn’t the London office, midlands.That was in 2008….
as others have said, realign expectations to salary offered. The world is quite different just now.

Nope the salary is not fine. It’s too low. That’s the whole reason you can’t recruit. My son has just been offered a graduate position for £37.5kpa. Not London.

That's much more like it.

Grads are able to talk to each other these days and compare the salaries they're being offered. It's a market which favours the employee. There's nothing entitled in their approach. They are smart enough to appreciate the position they are in.

We turned down a young man who failed the practical and his mother phoned to harangue us for turning down such a talented person!

We had a woman write in and complain her daughter didn't get a place on our graduate scheme. According to her, her daughter had a degree in the subject so couldn't fathom why she didn't get a place. Writing back I said we had 7000 applications for 30 odd places so the fact she had a degree in said subject wasn't going to set her apart. I then highlighted some of the things that would mean she would stand out and send the letter.

What I didn't say was there was no way her daughter was right for our grad scheme if her mum had to write letters on her behalf and she couldn't ask for feedback for herself.

I’m in the north and I work in the public sector and even we pay our graduate positions more than that. That’s really low.
There’s also a much healthier attitude emerging in younger generations around working to live and not living to work.

I do a lot of research for HR and this is the trend. The tables have turned in favour of candidates rather than the other way round. There are so many jobs on offer, candidates can afford to be choosy - they have lots of jobs and offers to choose from so employers need to be competitive. Gone are the days of employers holding all the cards - in order to be competitive in hiring you need to really adapt and employers need to sell, not the other way round. Yes, there's more entitlement with candidates and they expect a lot, but in many cases they are getting what they ask for.

There are a lot of companies this candidate can choose from so now it's actually more about you selling your company and why this person would want to work there, not the other way round. Top draws for candidates are salary (more so now than ever because of rising cost of living) and career progression. Hybrid working or working from home is standard, not a luxury etc.

Do a google search about hiring and you'll see dozens of reports that will confirm this and what employers need to be doing to attract the top candidates.

I know it's demoralising - but candidates have had to put up being ghosted by employers, being made to jump through hoops etc to get a job for years - now it's the other way round.

Well there are graduates and graduates aren’t there. Just because someone has been to university doesn’t make them worthy of a high salary. It is always going to be the attitude and what there is about the person who will define how they get their foot through the door.

No 22 year old with next to no work experience is going to be in a position to get a job if they have an entitled attitude and think they know their worth before they’ve even set foot in a professional environment.

a smart savvy grad will look at what they will learn in their first job and how it will equip them to get where they eventually want. They might start on £22k but they’ll be the ones laughing when their attitude and experience takes them far beyond what the arrogant little fuss pots who won’t get out of bed for less than £30k with no experience ever manage to achieve

and those who talk about £35-40k starting salaries, do you really think they are going to the kids who can barely grunt in an interview? No theyre going to the ones who have done the work in the background: who have looked for work experience, who have done the online internships over covid, who have shown leadership and used their initiative on top of their degree through sports or running clubs or similar or taken on extra training etc in their own time.

if they want the big money they’ll still, even in this day and age need more than a degree certificate

I’m always in two minds about being very impressed that a student secured an internship (or several) with companies - is not great practice to be impressed that someone has a big name on their cv, what does it say? - it isn’t always a positive - why didn’t that internship lead to a job - after all that’s why we offer them! Who got them the internship - was it Mummy or Daddy? What skills did they acquire in six weeks that another grad couldn’t acquire equally as quickly.

My graduate position paid 21k 20 years ago. Considering how much the cost of living has gone up in this time 22k is a low wage.

Salary offers surely depends on the degrees taken, whether there's a glut or shortage in that area. Some careers are not well paid at different times. Some are never well paid.