Go on fess up, who’s eating all the good graduates?

[Whatsyournameandwheredyoucomefrom]

I am currently interviewing grads for an entry level role in the marketing industry and SWEETMARYANDJOSEPH it’s tough going.

I’ve been taking in cohorts of grads for 10 years and in past years they were always keen to learn, chatty, determined to show the best of themselves and keen to know more about the industry. I’ve found graduate hiring to be a really
lovely thing; starting people off on their careers is something I love to do.

This year is bloody horrendous. I’ve done 23 interviews so far (5 roles available) and bar 2, without exception there’s zero enthusiasm or ‘self selling’, it’s more like I’m asking them to do a household chore and they’re getting pocket money in return - it’s ‘well if I really must do this job, what’s in it for me’. For example today a 21 year old cut me off mid sentence as I was talking about possible career progression through the industry and said ‘yeah I’m probably not thinking about that right now, I’m just figuring out what industry I want to get into right now you know? Like what is it about XXXX (that industry I’ve been in my entire career) that you think is worth pursuing because I could do basically anything and be fine you know?’ - very nearly snapped ‘this is an interview not a careers fair’ but held my tongue. Another told me £22k was basically slavery (her exact words) and she couldn’t work for less than £30k - not even graduated yet ffs. Also, oop norf so no London premium either.

I’m not expecting gratitude for the interview, I don’t even expect them to know anything about the industry and I’ll pay them £22k for the privilege of being fairly useless for a year while they learn. They can be earning £30k in 2 years with the training they get at the early stages through this role and I’ve had some go one to £50k+ in that time and yet almost without exception, none of the grads this year have turned up to the interview with any indication that they actually want the job.

What is this?? Is someone sweeping up all the driven, good candidates and paying them megabucks? Or are universities setting mad expectations on salary and not teaching interview skills?

I’m 35 so it’s not like I’m totally out of touch and feel a bit daft saying it but is this a generational thing? Covid?? WHAT IS HAPPENING?

An interview is a two way process. Fir you to see if they fit your company and then to see if they would be happy working there. Yabu.

This flexible leave interests me.

I once asked a national company at interview if they're give me extra unpaid days as their 20 days holiday wasn't enough for me. Only 5 but they said no, so I didn't take the job...

It is a good thing, so long as you can actually take them without people moaning.

I totally disagree! 22k for what is basically a training role is absolutely fine. I wasn’t earning that when I was 21 in my first job

Out of curiosity, are you advancing the careers and salaries of your current non graduate staff at the same rate and with the same support as new graduates to the business??

These are the future of our country and if that doesn’t scar the living daylights out of you I don’t know what will

and whoever said 22k was low are you mental these kids know absolutely nothing, they can barely wipe their own arses and you think 22k is low

I agree with you - they know absolutely nothing, think they know everything - I have one at home...I see him through the eyes of a grad recruiter and he doesn't listen, he thinks he's the mutt's nuts. We would not give him a job - we couldn't ask our team to carry him and that we own the company makes it worse, we couldn't land that arrogance on anyone - he's going to have to cut his teeth elsewhere. We are a very small company but I have sympathies with Logan Roy!

@alphapie omg really? I am 50.. educated and earning £18 😂 I work for a charity so admittedly I know it’s low but.. £30k is rubbish is it? £22k as starting wage, an insult? It’s like another planet on here….

Not unreasonable at all! My school only want graduates for TA jobs. Out of 7 they employed in the last 2 years, 2 have stayed the full academic year. 3 left after half term in July. 4 weeks left of the term! Couldn't even see y6 to the end. No work ethic, they all wanted a job where they could do as little as possible for shit loads of money. Don't we all 🙄

This! 👆

1. everyone has told you the salary is too low
2. they have other options, there’s a global labour shortage
3. you are not picking from the motivated

Recruiter here. I hear ya!

Crikey! They're all so fipping entitled. Flaky. Demanding and have unrealistic expectations

The job market is in their favour though. Maybe it will swing back again if we hit a recession?

It's harder to find decent grads up north compared to London. Maybe there are
More jobs? Or fewer candidates?

One thing I will say, £22k is low

I was earning more as a grad in the early 00s (in London) but employers need to recognise that inflation happens. Salaries cant stand still

I work for a University and you are definitely not BU!
Every year it gets harder because the hand holding gets bigger. We drill in all the skills needed but it's like social media has given them everything is instant qualities where they want it handed to them on a plate. They find it much easier to communicate online than in person and so many more students every year have an attitude problem. I'd hate for anyone to think it's the unis because we try so hard 😭
Covid also has killed off many of the social skills that young people have and many are now just of the mindset that life is short and they'll only do things absolutely necessary unless it's fun.

It’s not an insult. But remember they’ve paid out £60k for a degree. They’re applying for a job that requires them to have done so, yet the renumeration is barely above minimum wage.

If the degree has no value, then don’t ask for it. But it is being asked for, therefore it needs to be remunerated for. Not potentially, which could never happen, but now. They’ve already paid out for it, they want return on that investment. That doesn’t seem unreasonable to me.

Hmmmm I think the reality is people are asking more in general from a job nowadays. There has been a cultural shift in thinking, mostly sparked by the pandemic & ppl’s expectations of a decent work/life balance plus a decent starting salary for a graduate are higher. People want more flexibility, more assertions of career progression, more money for their time, and a decent benefits/pensions package.

Gone are the days where the employer held all the cards. And quite rightly so. Lifestyle values are becoming more evident in young people’s minds, and a salary of 22k for a graduate is not going to buy them.

I do blame the way education is sold to kids - like a degree is your ticket to a great job - you've paid your fees you deserve the great job. It doesn't work that way! Getting your degree is just the start!

Nope the salary is not fine. It’s too low. That’s the whole reason you can’t recruit. My son has just been offered a graduate position for £37.5kpa. Not London.

What is the job and what is his degree in? That’s such a big salary for someone straight out of university with very little experience.

I find the handholding and numerous excuses for why people can’t do work ridiculous.
But the ‘life is too short’?
Hmmm.

I’ve been a planner, excellent at delayed gratification my whole life. I planned and planned and planned and planned.

Then in 2020 Covid - a lot of things went up in smoke.

Just as they were starting to get better, the war happened and things are back to being shit. We’re also being told that our planet is dying, there’s chaos everywhere and nobody’s doing anything about it. If you’re the switched on type open the news and there’s a constant barrage of disasters.

Now, I don’t deny that the media feeding on negativity is partially responsible. But a lot of people , who did everything right, are now struggling because of circumstance.

Uncertainty has been hammered home more than ever. Can’t blame people for saying screw it. They don’t even know whether they’ll be able to buy property or have a family even if they work hard. So why bother.

The Tories have spent the last 12 years destroying the education system. We are now seeing the results of those austerity / ideology decisions as the cohort that got the worst of it is now graduating. Its so sad what is happening to the UK at the moment. Its not just our kids who are being failed.

Tbf there's no possible way they could do any worse than the boomers and first half of generation x.

Gifted an unprecedented period of peace, prosperity, growth and innovation but instead of working to create a better world for everyone they chose to feather their own nests at future generations expense. Oh and wrecked the country, economy, and planet in the process.

I really think we should be asset stripping everyone born between 1946 and 1975 to contribute a tiny little bit towards the damaged they caused.

As one of Gen-X who didn't go to Uni, has never inherited, has always worked and pays enough tax to employ a couple of nurses, I appreciate your empathy. If I stop working, I will pay nothing in tax, will that make you happy?

£22k is too low and they're not faking enthusiasm because the job market is good.

Up the salary.

The word 'entitlement' comes up a lot.
It brings to mind a boomer yelling at a cloud.

Employment is never a favour.
Salary is compensation paid for work done.
Companies are not in the business of handing out favours out of the good of their heart.

If there are any graduates reading this, at your next interview, ask what the job, company, and industry can do for you! And ask how you'll be compensated. Believe your worth. Work hard. And if after a year or two you find somewhere better, move on. Good luck!

I work for the nhs as a biomedical scientist and the entry at the lowest level for our graduates is 25.6K - that’s country wide, not London. So definitely the pay is too low