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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be LIVID at the National Theatre?

398 replies

helpmeunderstand04 · 17/07/2022 19:46

I was at the National Theatre festival this Saturday which was advertised as outdoor live music, dance, performance, workshops and family fun. I thought great, perfect way to spend a Saturday.

We were there from 6:30 and the drag act on stage was promoting inclusivity and had, what started as a great message. They said...

'We need to teach our children to open their hearts, teach our children to open their minds and to teach our children to open their legs'. The last line was said with the same tone as if it was a risque joke.

Both me and DP are just disgusted by what we saw. We couldn't believe it. This act had a short dress on and their bulge was showing through out. It was just plain weird. Fine in a club, not at a festival literally targeted as being good for families.

From then the evening just got weirder. There was a drag queen and a drag king contest. Great! I literally had never seen drag king acts and was really excited and thought it was great representation and diversity.

However, with every single drag king act they took their clothes off. No drag queens take their clothes off, but the drag kings did and were showing their scars from their mastectomy/gender affirming surgery. I do get the message that they are proud and don't need to hide and really I do agree with that. But it just felt weird that women who now identify as men are still having to take their clothes off, where as the drag queens didn't remove one item of clothing.

AIBU in feeling angry at the marketing team at the national theatre?

OP posts:
VestofAbsurdity · 18/07/2022 22:17

Iliveonahill · 18/07/2022 21:57

Looks like the comments on Twitter think it is outrageous too.

No, can't be! Only posters on MN FWR Sex & Gender Board object surely? We keep being told that everyone else who posts on MN and in the whole wide world is absolutely fine with this, never mind the AIBU polls and every other poll says different but hey ho everyone else everywhere definitely doesn't care about this.

And before anyone starts the whole It's the same people from MN FWR on Twitter - no it ain't.

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 18/07/2022 22:25

Clymene · 18/07/2022 16:32

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/drag-queen-story-hour-who-is-it-for

But it's not just these predators using drag as a convenient cloak to get closer to children. It's the children being encouraged to tuck dollar bills into thongs. It's the sexual double entendre names.

Drag is adult entertainment. Why are people so keen to repackage it as family friendly entertainment? What is the point of drag queen story time?

Who is benefiting?

I was wondering this, too. It’s very interesting seeing a real consequence of the extraordinary efforts that have been made to embed a form of adult entertainment in popular culture and children’s lives.

All those people saying that this was clearly not a family friendly show are obviously correct. But why were the parents so keen to go along in the first place, without even properly checking the programme? They saw drag and thought, great! Family fun! Ideal for the DC!

And there’s a reason they thought that. The reason being the way drag is being pushed and pushed at the general public, and specifically at children. These parents love Drag Race, I’m sure. OP says they think drag queen story time is great. They’ve completely forgotten (if they ever knew) that drag shows are very much adult entertainment, arising out of adult gay subculture and not remotely suitable for children at all.

Why has it been pushed like this? Why the hell do we have the phenomenon of adult entertainers with risqué names and no experience at all in children’s education, much less any awareness of safeguarding, going into schools and public libraries and reading to children? And endlessly promoted as family entertainment on TV?

It’s not that all these men present a risk to children (though a minority of them undoubtedly do, simply because that’s true of absolutely every demographic of men/male people). It’s that they seem to be being used as some kind of wedge to break down and blur boundaries, to introduce children to adult themes, sexualised content, awareness of a culture that isn’t meant for children at all.

It really does seem like there is a concerted attempt to normalise drag, to make it everyday - maybe connected to a simultaneous push to introduce fetishes into the everyday and normalise them, like the pup fetish at Pride these days, where you see police officers smiling for photo ops while holding the leash of a pup or two; or even kids interacting with and “petting” the pups. (I mean, we used to be clear that transvestism in heterosexual men was a sexual fetish, but now it’s being hailed as being under the LGBTQ+ umbrella and taught to teenagers in schools as something almost venerable.)

If you’re not worried, by this trend, it seems to me you actively don’t care about safeguarding, or you’re very naive.

I mean, WHY drag queen story time? Just why? What on earth have sexualised adult entertainers got to do with pre-school and primary school aged children? Why are they suddenly in practically every school and public library? Are we going to have stripper story time next? They sometimes have fabulous glittery outfits too, after all.

OP thinks it’s harmless. But this right here is part of the harm. Parents misguidedly taking their young children to an event that’s completely inappropriate for them, and where one of the performers actually made a joke about CSA. And people on here are defending making jokes about CSA in front of children.

Because we’re being told all the time that drag is great, and family friendly, and sooo much fun. And only bores and bigots and prudes don’t like it, don’t want it pushed on them on TV, pushed on children, constantly normalised.

Hmm.

VestofAbsurdity · 18/07/2022 22:30

Excellent post @RoaringtoLangClegintheDark sums it all up perfectly.

Galileu · 18/07/2022 22:42

Thank you @RoaringtoLangClegintheDark - brilliant post.

scorpiogirly · 18/07/2022 22:46

helpmeunderstand04 · 17/07/2022 20:01

It was the National Theatre’s River Stage festival. Maybe I misunderstood and this weekend wasn't for families, but lots of babies and children were there yesterday. This is the copy from their website on the event:

Over five weekends, starting in July, leading arts and performance companies will take over the stage to celebrate the best of British culture including performances from drag artists, dance performances, live streamed theatre and plenty of activities for the whole family to enjoy.

Even if this weekend wasn't for children, sexualising children in that way is all shades of wrong, if not illegal.

I would be livid at the content also. But then I wouldn't have taken my daughter within 10 miles of any drag act. I don't care what the content is, drag acts aren't for children.

nolongersurprised · 18/07/2022 22:51

I would be livid at the content also. But then I wouldn't have taken my daughter within 10 miles of any drag act. I don't care what the content is, drag acts aren't for children

And “jokes” about encouraging children to open their legs shouldn’t be for adults either.

Child sexual abuse isn’t funny.

scorpiogirly · 18/07/2022 22:53

alphapie · 17/07/2022 21:56

Humour is subjective.

Would be a boring world if everyone found the same jokes funny.

There are many comedians who have dark humour and are immensely popular. Maybe you can also get a famous mn grip

There is something wrong with anyone who thinks a joke about csa or paedophilia is just a funny joke.

scorpiogirly · 18/07/2022 22:56

nolongersurprised · 18/07/2022 22:51

I would be livid at the content also. But then I wouldn't have taken my daughter within 10 miles of any drag act. I don't care what the content is, drag acts aren't for children

And “jokes” about encouraging children to open their legs shouldn’t be for adults either.

Child sexual abuse isn’t funny.

I totally agree. This whole uprising of drag acts putting on shows for children like drag queen story hour is just abhorrent. I wouldn't personally want to go see a drag act as an adult. I find the general content quite vulgar. If an adult chooses to go that's fair enough but keep them away from children ffs!

colouringindoors · 18/07/2022 22:57

What decent person, man jokes about encouraging children to open their legs?! In Plain Sight.

colouringindoors · 18/07/2022 23:00

VestofAbsurdity · 18/07/2022 22:30

Excellent post @RoaringtoLangClegintheDark sums it all up perfectly.

This.

BanditoShipman · 18/07/2022 23:31

beautyisthefaceisee · 18/07/2022 15:04

Bollocks.

Men can open their legs too, you know.

You've sprained a muscle with that leap.

‘Open their/your legs’ is always said to women not men. Which you clearly know.

TullyApplebottom · 19/07/2022 00:06

The reason why parents take their kids to this stuff is be cause they are idiots who make themselves feel good by adopting progressive bullshit.
drag is intended to be transgressive. That’s it’s point. As someone who is not invested in gender roles I may find it’s notion of transgression outdated and boring but the fact remains it’s raison d’être is adults breaking what they see as important norms. Why do children need to be involved in this? How do they benefit? Even if the drag act is sanitised do we need to be exposing kids to the idea that men dressed up as women is somehow noteworthy?

Clymene · 19/07/2022 00:32

I don't think it's fair to say they're idiots. I think they're beguiled by thinking it's the right thing to do, that it displays their liberal parenting credentials to the world.

I mean drag queen story time would have died on it's arse if no one went. But clearly there are a lot of parents who do go. I've seen people on here say they watch Drag Race with their primary aged children.

It's positioned in mainstream culture as being family friendly. At 7pm, in an open venue on the south bank, I'd expect it to be family friendly.

And when it isn't - like this wasn't - you get loads of people shouting 'well what did you expect?' Any discomfort you may feel must be squished down, lest you be accused of 'frothing'.

MangyInseam · 19/07/2022 01:09

Absolutely, that's the contradiction.

If drag is not family friendly, stop marketing it like it is.

If it is not ok for kids to go to events involving people with sexually explicit names, stop sending them into kid's schools.

If it's not ok for kids to see mostly naked people in BDSM gear, or giant dildos, stop saying kids should be at Pride parades.

If the general culture is saying all this stuff is great, then don't be surprised when people turn up with their kids at a drag event thinking it was meant to be "family friendly."

TullyApplebottom · 19/07/2022 07:37

I am harsher than you, I’m afraid. If displaying liberal parenting credentials takes precedence over properly thinking things through, you’re an idiot.

Clymene · 19/07/2022 08:00

TullyApplebottom · 19/07/2022 07:37

I am harsher than you, I’m afraid. If displaying liberal parenting credentials takes precedence over properly thinking things through, you’re an idiot.

Take your point. I do think we need to put some of the blame on the BBC etc for pushing it so hard to a family audience

TullyApplebottom · 19/07/2022 08:39

It’s the lack of questioning from all involved that is troubling. Why do we think we need to push this to children? How will they benefit? If it’s about breaking down gender stereotypes why do we think a genre which relies on such stereotypes for its meaning and value has anything to offer?

TullyApplebottom · 19/07/2022 08:41

And if it’s about acceptance of different sexualities why are we ignoring the fact that drag has nothing to do with most gay people?

Mascia · 19/07/2022 09:42

MangyInseam · 19/07/2022 01:09

Absolutely, that's the contradiction.

If drag is not family friendly, stop marketing it like it is.

If it is not ok for kids to go to events involving people with sexually explicit names, stop sending them into kid's schools.

If it's not ok for kids to see mostly naked people in BDSM gear, or giant dildos, stop saying kids should be at Pride parades.

If the general culture is saying all this stuff is great, then don't be surprised when people turn up with their kids at a drag event thinking it was meant to be "family friendly."

If drag is not family friendly, stop marketing it like it is.

If it is not ok for kids to go to events involving people with sexually explicit names, stop sending them into kid's schools.

Well, exactly. Why market drag events at kids and then act all surprised if parents (who’re trying to be inclusive and progressive and do the right thing) take their kids to one of those events?

As others have pointed up, what exactly is the purpose of drag queen story time? What is the benefit to the kids?

Bimbobreadlover · 19/07/2022 18:14

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Berthatydfil · 19/07/2022 19:34

According to the Mail the drag show star has been banned by National Theatre for joke about children.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11027323/Drag-star-banned-National-Theatre-joking-children-taught-open-LEGS.html#comments-11027323

VestofAbsurdity · 19/07/2022 19:41

Well, well, well:

A drag show star has been banned by the National Theatre from performing again at a family-friendly festival for making a sexually explicit joke about children in front of a horrified young audience.

The National Theatre said the comments made by a performer went 'against the festival's content and performance guidelines' and the performer in question would be banned from River Stage in future.

A spokesperson for The National Theatre said: 'The National Theatre’s River Stage festival includes a wide range of free performances and activities across five weekends – from dance workshops to DJs, striving to foster an atmosphere of positivity and inclusivity.

'Many events are suitable for all ages, and the National Theatre works with programming partners to ensure acts are scheduled for the most appropriate time of day.

'The National Theatre is aware that a comment, which goes against the festival's content and performance guidelines, was made on stage during the first weekend of the festival; the performer will not appear again at the River Stage.'

Kind of blows out of the water the assertion that it is only the women on FWR S&G Board who found the 'joke' abhorrent.

What say you @beautyisthefaceisee @alphapie et al?

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 19/07/2022 20:50

Glad to see Bimbobreadlover’s post has been deleted.

It had real shades of the stuff that PIE used to peddle, and made that poster look distinctly paedophile-adjacent.

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 19/07/2022 20:51

VestofAbsurdity · 19/07/2022 19:41

Well, well, well:

A drag show star has been banned by the National Theatre from performing again at a family-friendly festival for making a sexually explicit joke about children in front of a horrified young audience.

The National Theatre said the comments made by a performer went 'against the festival's content and performance guidelines' and the performer in question would be banned from River Stage in future.

A spokesperson for The National Theatre said: 'The National Theatre’s River Stage festival includes a wide range of free performances and activities across five weekends – from dance workshops to DJs, striving to foster an atmosphere of positivity and inclusivity.

'Many events are suitable for all ages, and the National Theatre works with programming partners to ensure acts are scheduled for the most appropriate time of day.

'The National Theatre is aware that a comment, which goes against the festival's content and performance guidelines, was made on stage during the first weekend of the festival; the performer will not appear again at the River Stage.'

Kind of blows out of the water the assertion that it is only the women on FWR S&G Board who found the 'joke' abhorrent.

What say you @beautyisthefaceisee @alphapie et al?

And yes! Well, well, well indeed.

VestofAbsurdity · 19/07/2022 21:07

That was a particularly foul post by Bimbobreadlover, pleased MN thought the same Roaring.