To not sleep train my baby?

[MD1803]

So, the internet is full of advice how to sleep train your baby.

Are there many / any people out there who never bothered and just allowed things to happen (and how did that go)?

My DD is 4 months old (in two days). We are now about two weeks in into the 4 month sleep regression. In general, it takes fair amount of rocking to get her fall asleep for her naps or at bedtime. I never put her down drowsy but awake. In fact I always wait about 20mins when she is normally in deep sleep and doesn’t wake up once I put her in her cot.

From about 2 months old until the regression started she would sleep from 9:00 and later 8:00pm to first wake up around 3:00 / 4:00 am.

Since the regression I started to take her to bed with me after her midnight / 1:00am wake up. Frankly I get better sleep that way. I never took her to bed with me before.

I’m thinking she will just naturally develop sleeping habits where she will get over the regression and eventually learn how to fall asleep on her own.

Am I being delusional?

Should mention that the friends referenced above are not sleep training in any way as can't cope with the crying. If that's what works for them that's fine. I couldn't do it though.

@Topgub yes, everyone is free to express their opinion. And people will, whether that is in answer to the question posted by the original poster (in this case me) or then opinions regarding the evolving thread.

Some will be more objective some more subjective.

Sometimes we try to read between the lines of what someone posted. And sometimes these ‘between the lines’ do exist and other times they don’t. I would say it doesn’t really matter either way.

Some comments might come across provocative and they are not intended to be (just the nature of social media and not having a face to face conversation) and other times people do like a little argument.

We are all different, like our babies (😁😁😉)

In my case I wouldn’t be happy to rock forever. So, and I do apologise in advance as this is me being a little argumentative, what would be your advice how to try to tackle my situation with my 4 month old. I don’t know if you have children and if so how old they are and what is your experience with them.

And yet by your logic shouldn’t they have learned they don’t need to cry because you are in fact still there?

@MD1803

If you're not happy to rock forever then I'd say St now.

You can do it 'gently'

There are lots of methods that claim to be 'no cry'

I posted a bit of my experience with my own children earlier

I didn't
At 11 months she started putting herself to sleep.
She makes noise for 4 or 5 mins (moaning not crying, babbling, etc) and then is out for the night, Before this we were rocking / feeding her to sleep. It's been a gamechanger and I've no idea how it worked, but grateful it did.

IF she ramps up from moans to wails of course we go and see if she's ok - but I feel like it's just her decompressing and then settling for the night.

I didn't do cry it out sleep training but did it very gently between 3 and 6 months (pick up put down, use of white noise etc, DC never left to cry) and they were all self-settling by 6m.

Many DC do grow out of needing to be rocked/cuddled/boobed/back rubbed etc etc to sleep, very naturally, without parents needing to formally sleep train.

Many DC don't.

And only at that point will you know whether you're the kind of parent to just go with the flow and wait to see if they do it on their own, for years if necessary. Or whether you're the kind who can't stand one more night of having to sit in a DC's room for hours having no evening to yourself whilst they fall asleep, and then repeat the process through the night because they can't re-settle themselves back to sleep.

Many parents are happy to do it, for years - I know of 9yos who cannot fall asleep unless a parent lies down with them for 2 hours + and that is fine, if that's what works for you, as a family.

But if it doesn't work for you, that's the point at which you might need to think about something else. And if you need to consider sleep training then that is fine too.

DC breastfed and bedshared until 3yo, waking a few times very briefly in the nights (I didn't care as super easily soothed), then easily transitioned to their own bed when they chose to at 3.5yrs, no probs. Milk dried up.

@luxxlisbon .you are missing the point. They stop as soon as I PICK THEM UP.

@luxxlisbon I'm not sitting poised over them all day and night. But as soon as they cry I get them and comfort them. And guess what. They stop crying

@pimlicoanna

It seems to be you who is missing the point.

You weren't asked about your kids

Yeah that’s not what people are responding to and asking

You said:
”Why would you want to teach your baby to stop crying because they've given up all hope of you coming in to them. I think it sucks”

My question and that of the PP is - do you think sleep trained babies never cry even during the day then as they think you’ll never come for them?

It has nothing to do with your own children - do you think sleep trained babies will never cry again?

@ShirleyPhallus that's people imposing something on to my post. It's literally got nothing to do with what I said. Of course babies cry. It's how you respond to it that I commented on. People who sleep train always get overly defensive- I know why. I'm off to enjoy my evening cheers

People generally only sleep train when they are desperate. People who don't get desperate like to think they are morally superior because they didn't need to sleep train, when actually it is more that their child slept better, they are able to cope with less sleep themselves, have more family support, dont work, or some other reason.
Whatever you end up doing, know that sleep training is there as an option if lack of sleep is causing you serious problems. And don't judge people who do it.

What I meant was that I didn't make the decision or put any effort into stopping feeding to sleep. It just naturally ran its course. When DC no longer fell asleep while feeding, the logical next step to me was that I still stayed with them, just without feeding. I didn't think to myself 'From now on I'll get them to stop feeding to sleep and instead I'll sing a lullaby' - I just always naturally did whatever worked and was least effort for me. Then at some point they started to go to sleep by themselves entirely.

The point was that in my experience it just naturally develops towards more independent sleep, no matter how many bad habits and rods for my back I had made previously.

I do agree with this. I think it is a problem then though, when people say these things like 'You have to teach your child this vital skill of self soothing' (as if that was possible and the child didn't start to self soothe in their own time when developmentally able to) or 'Youre making a rod for your own back' (not true at all, things naturally evolve over time) or 'Youre creating all these bad habits' (suggesting they can then never be changed anymore, which isn't true at all). All of these statements conversely shame or intimidate those who do not want to sleep train into thinking they ought to. That's not right either

I've always rocked my baby to sleep and never attempted sleep training, as much as I've looked into every possible strategy during those awful regressions I've never been able to try it as I just can't do it! In my experience the regressions are temporary and things go back to normal after a couple of weeks.

My little boy is 1 now and I don't really rock him anymore as I don't need to, for his 1 nap a day I sit with him in my arms and he falls asleep then I put him down. At bedtime he has his bottle then falls asleep in my arms with his dummy in and again I put him down asleep. I have no intention to stop doing this.. he sleeps from 7-7 and has a decent 2 hour nap in the day too. It's what works for us and naturally his sleep has got better as he's got older.. just because I hold him and he has his dummy when he falls asleep doesn't mean he wakes in the night needing it again.. he puts himself back to sleep. I was so worried when he was a few months old that I was making a rod for my own back with what I was reading online regarding sleep training and sleep crutches etc. I say just keep giving your baby what she needs and take things as they come! And enjoy it

I think people are confused rather than defensive, given you’re the one who said that sleep training teaches babies to stop crying because they learn no one comes 🤷‍♀️

@Selinna

Doesn't matter if you consciously decided to do it or not.

Its still an intervention. You still replaced one sleep gaining method with an other

@pimlicoanna

You're not making any sense

Same. With kid 2 I did gradual withdrawal sleep training at 9/10 months as I knew I couldn’t do waking 5/6 times a night for another couple of years. I wouldn’t have been a good parent in any way so I had to sleep train which wasn’t in my parenting ideology, so to speak. Being in a relationship with kids isn’t always what we imagine! Hopefully he will settle for you though and you won’t need to consider it, it does happen for some not jealous at all

What's bad about this 'intervention' then? Like I say, in my experience the DC outgrew all of the 'interventions' in their own time anyway. It required no training on my part

Nope, not even slightly delusional. My sister and I both swear sleep training is yet another tool used to exploit parent’s exhaustion and guilt, and to make them feel even crapper about themselves. My son is 10 months, and sleeps through (7pm-6am) on average 5 out of 7 nights a week (will have an occasional night of waking once here and there). I never sleep trained him, and on paper he has the WORST experiences. 4 months spent in hospital with constant night observations waking him up, noisy wards, nasty procedures etc, you name it he’s had it. He has never once slept through in hospital, but does at home. By ‘sleep training’ logic, he should be a crap sleeper, but he isn’t, he’s fab. My sister’s baby on the other hand has had the best of the best in terms of sleep hygiene, sleep support etc, and he is now 2.5 and still doesn’t sleep through. Have a good bedtime routine, and go with the flow. And block out all the noise of people pressuring to sleep train!

We never did it. We always rocked them to sleep then when older stayed with them until they fell asleep, right up to about age 6/7 when they were happy for us to leave them still awake after their story.

@Selinna

I never said it was bad?

You said they learned to sleep with no intervention from you.

Thats obviously not true

That was me point.

Almost all children need taught how to sleep, one way or another

Some need less intervention than others

Some need none

Some need lots

Neither way is bad

I tried and failed so I gave up. Some kids just won’t adjust. Not every day is the same some days they are more tired etc and the routine goes out the window. Finally getting somewhere with DD aged 3 now. Next child I will go with the flow. Too much being told what to do online and too much assuming every child is textbook and every life as a parent is the same!

I didn’t. I’m a child psychologist, so would never consider it based on the research (*cue a whole load of angry mum’s asking for peer reviewed studies…). The truth is, their obviously aren’t any studies looking at exactly this topic, as it would be completely unethical to research something that you suspect could be harmful to an infant. Despite this, taking everything we now know about brain development, attachment, the neurological impact of developmental trauma, etc, etc., I feel it is pretty safe to conclude that it is NOT good practice for infants/young children, and flies in the face of their basic biology. Leaving a child to cry certainly does get the behavioural response people want (for them to be quiet and sleep), but on a neurological level, and certainly from an attachment perspective, I believe it to be harmful. After all, the behaviourist movement in itself was developed with rats and pigeons - animals that don’t even have the same brain structures as human babies!!

My two didn’t sleep through all night until they were around 18 months. I was prepared for that though and now they sleep beautifully.

The only advice I can give you is to trust your own judgement on this.