Teacher and student hit

[Sixpencefaux]

Has anybody seen the footage from a Leeds secondary school where a student attacks another student. When the teacher steps in, the student then repeatedly punched the teacher in the face. It really is shocking.

"If I were any of those things then I expect my parents would send me to a specialist school, not try to include me in mainstream education. Children who do have that level of disability are rare."

You may find that your parents would be told that there aren't enough special school places and you will be fine in mainstream. If your parents wanted a special school place they would have to join thousands of others going to tribunal to secure a suitable place for their child.

My friends child wasn't as severe as that. She wanted special school but was told because her child could speak, he couldn't have it. He was permanently excluded in yr1 and spent a year out of education until an imminent tribunal hearing and the prospect of spending £100k a year at a specialist independent meant the LA magically found a place in one of their own schools.
That's the reality of parents being able to choose special school.

I once got pushed over by a student that had been working perfectly 30 seconds before. All of my side was bruised and my school laptop was smashed as a result. A couple of kids screamed and one cried as it happened out of shock. He was put in isolation for an hour. Nobody contacted home (I didn’t because I assumed exclusion which is above me). As a result he didn’t even get a detention.

Two days later I asked where he would be for my lesson, SLT couldn’t understand why he wouldn’t be in my lesson, I’m a food teacher so have knives around etc. I was told if I refused to teach him it would count as strike action on my part and I wouldn’t be paid.

At my next PMR meeting I was given the target to build good relationships with students and increase contact with home when needed, I didn’t move up the pay scale because of this. I also had to buy myself a laptop to complete work on because school wasn’t willing to replace the one that I apparently broke.

He was arrested less than 6 months later for an unprovoked stabbing.

Just to add, I’m 5 foot, he was at least 6 foot.

@GCHeretic
'No, it’s all about you isn’t it.'

Nope, it's about her unborn child. And quite rightly.

Why don't unions put an emphasis on this?

If I were a teacher I would prefer a robust response against bad behaviour from a school rather than having a pay rise.

Sadly this also occurs here in Australia. More often than not, the children's parents verbally attack the teachers for "daring to speak"* *to the children about their poor choices and bad behaviour!
I really feel for all of the teachers who really try their best to deal with disrespectful children and their ungrateful & disrespectful parents!!

It's ridiculous isn't it.

Doesn't get the dc anywhere in life

I'm so sorry that you were physically injured while simply doing your job; and that you were not supported by your employer. Having to buy yourself a laptop so that you can continue to work is ridiculous. Hopefully you can claim the purchase back as employment-related at tax time!
It also sounds like you have great instincts, considering that that same young person allegedly committed a stabbing not long after the incident with you!

I once had to grab a 15 years old girl from behind to prevent her from attacking another girl with a pencil sharpener blade, I held her arms from behind her until another teacher came along. I had a badly pulled shoulder and an internal enquiry to see if I had, according to the breeder of the girl, used too much force! She could see a nice little claim on the horizon no doubt.

The big difficulty with that is whether the TA has the knowledge, via experience and training to do this, on their own in a mainstream. The teacher will leave them to it, and possibly won’t know themselves: and TAs are increasingly fed up of what they are expected to know and do for the paltry wages. I hope your dd is valued.

Tbh most of my Ds’s “1-1s” we’re amazing and really good with him it just that they were expected to look after other kids at same time, worse time was when I arrived slightly early and his 1-1 was in sole charge of 2 classes ie. 60 kids and Ds was having a meltdown and chucking as they couldn’t do his end of day routine. If I’d not had arrived early I’m sure I’d of been told he was having a meltdown for no reason and would have been excluded

This is appalling.

As a short woman you have basically zero chance of coming off well against someone bigger and stronger than you without risking serious injury to them.

Then you would get into trouble for hurting the students.

Teachers should not be put in this position, if a school has problems of this kind they should employ security staff.

As to the poster saying a pregnant teacher should be expected to risk the life of her unborn child, wtf?

Staff should be team teach trained.

Without that they should walk away.

Absolutely @Aria999 scary to think the entitlement from someone to think that a pregnant woman is awful for not thinking of the fighting pupil before her unborn child.

@TheMoth

Yes, it is shit for everyone. But some parents see Special School as a judgement on them and refuse it on principle. He needs to be in a secure unit that can meet his needs where staff are trained to deal with his outbursts and he can have specialist intervention.

And the other students in his year group need to be able to go to school without the fear of being violently attacked. But somehow parents of kids like this never understand that.

in real life I’ve never known anyone not to want special school for their child if they thought it was needed, I’m sure there must be a few people but they are very much the minority. The reality is that it’s virtually impossible to get special school or the sort of secure school that you are referring to, it’s not simply a matter of parents not wanting it. My son is in asd special school but I had to appeal to tribunal to even get an ehcp as the la said he could be supported in mainstream school without an ehcp! He was already not managing and becoming violent and lashing out. Without sounding like I’m bragging I am quite an intelligent person and work in a professional capacity so was able to navigate the law and form an appeal and the la conceded before we even got to appeal, but the fact is lots of parents don’t have the capacity to do themselves or the funds to pay a solicitor/ advocate to do for them, so the reality of getting into special school is virtually zero yet there’s always parent bashing

If I were any of those things then I expect my parents would send me to a specialist school, not try to include me in mainstream education. Children who do have that level of disability are rare.

That would be lovely but specialist provision is very hard to come by. My DD is able to speak but can’t communicate her needs - she has complex processing difficulties due to early trauma. She can’t tell when she’s hungry, thirsty or tired, she experiences most bodily sensations as anxiety, She has sensory processing issues and has significant hearing loss. She gets very overwhelmed in a normal classroom setting which, so far, shows itself in her hiding in the classroom or taking herself off to the toilets, which are quiet and she can gather her thoughts. She’s also significantly learning delayed.

All of this still doesn’t mean she’ll automatically get a place in a specialist provision - at the moment her primary school are able to make enough adjustments for her that it’s just about manageable, but there are still difficulties. In mainstream high school I can absolutely see her lashing out when she’s not able to cope with constantly changing classroom, changing expectations of different teachers, remembering what she needs for what class, busy corridors and the noise levels. At that point she’ll no doubt be labelled as a difficult or violent kid, which she isn’t.

The lack of decent specialist provision for children like my DD is appalling, she has the right to an education but mainstream school would be disastrous for her. It’s not simply a matter of requesting she be placed elsewhere though.

Children who do have that level of disability are rare.

And it’s not that rare - in my DDs year there are 4 other kids with her level of additional support needs, they present differently as you would expect but 5 kids in a year group of 50 isn’t rare.

I voted YABU, not because I support violence in schools, but because of the idea that anyone could be shocked that this sort of thing happens.

Schools are violent places, they always have been. They are much like prisons in that there are people attending against their will, and a smaller group of people who are paid to look after them. As in prisons, crime against the attendees is rife, yet rarely treated seriously, and resources are lacking.

Attacks on pupils, attacks on teachers, which occasionally result in serious injury or death, are just part of the schooling institution. It's not good, but it's inevitable when crowding people together, not on interest or skill, but on something arbitrary like age.

@Dotjones would you be as so 'oh well violent shit happens in schools' if a member of your family was assaulted whether teacher or pupil?

Early intervention would also help. I once taught a very disturbed 4 year old who would walk across a room and randomly punch a child in the face. The other children were terrified of him. In Year 1, he was caught throwing stones at pet rabbits. It was clear he needed specialist help but none was forthcoming and he moved through primary school bullying numerous children and having “chats” with the headteacher. He would be an adult now and I suspect will be repeating the DV he witnessed as a child and I would not be surprised to read about him in the papers.

I personally think blames with the funding cuts, huge battles to get support from camhs, the LA SEN teams OT, speech therapy, socail care and SEN school places. Sure there's some shitty parents and shitty kids out there. But funding cuts fobbed off as inclusion doesn't help anyone.

Parents can't really push back on that but HT can. Just think how kids sre failed by camhs daily. It's not acceptable to bash an adult with mh issues but if your kid? Your a tosser and your parents are scum. That's a lazy oversimplification of the problems faced by education.

If you only allowed exemplary parents places at school do think all the issues would stop? I dint believe that.

Have a look at any thread on here where a parent is posting about their child being violent at school. It’s full of posters telling them how to force the school to keep them in the classroom whilst alternative provision is looked into. Any suggestion that the needs of the other kids not to be attacked is met with outrage - this is disablist. Any suggestion that the parents should home educate their child is met with outrage - it’s not their job, they shouldn’t have to compromise their jobs, the school should be better at stopping the violence. Any suggestion that it traumatises other children who may themselves have disabilities is met with outrage - the other kids should have to learn to be more tolerant.

There are no easy answers but the outcome is that at present we don’t accept, as a society, the fundamental premise that nobody should have to endure an environment where they are physically attacked. And that is deeply wrong.