Teacher and student hit

[Sixpencefaux]

Has anybody seen the footage from a Leeds secondary school where a student attacks another student. When the teacher steps in, the student then repeatedly punched the teacher in the face. It really is shocking.

There are instances where teachers should be allowed to use the necessary force to defend themselves. This is one of them.

I’m 5 months pregnant. You think I should physically intervene if my 11 year olds get into a fight? Of course no teacher should have to get physically involved - the kids are bigger than us! There are no male adults in our school.

As an ex teacher it’s still scary even if it’s a primary child or if there’s un met SEN. I once had an 8 yr old go for me from behind when I wasn’t aware they were in a classroom I walked in to. I was left with significant bruising to my ribs, back and a swollen upper ear. It got to me mentally quite a bit. Even a 6 yr old with scissors can be hard to deal with when you are trying not to actually hurt them back (unlike you would with adults).
I think I was teaching 10-15 years before I was offered restraint/ de-escalation training.
In high schools I’ve had just accidental blows defending children that have winded me too hard to get up and carry. A colleague was hit in the face with an air gun purely for fun during a lesson.
Im so much less jumpy and more confident 5 years post leaving teaching and being expected to have a magic wand to prevent harm when ever other professional and parent can’t manage either. One boy I had for an entire year, had to physically intervene for regularly was in an incident where the police got involved. The two officers called for back up when he used a chair against them in a corridor. Whilst I really felt for him, he had difficulties, I was very pissed off id been expected to manage him alone as a female 2/3 of their body weights all year.

I’d remove the word “necessary” from that. If the safest way to intervene is to crack the back of their head with a chair then needs must.

Yes, if a child is on the ground being beaten I think that you should.

If you are the sort of person who will just watch as someone dies that then you shouldn’t be employed in teaching.

@GCHeretic I initially wrote 'reasonable' then thought they shouldn't have to think about what they're doing before they try to defend themselves. When I said necessary I meant they should be allowed to defend themselves or others in any way necessary - ie the necessary force may not normally be deemed as reasonable force, if that makes sense

I had to physically intervene to break up a fight between two hefty Yr 11s in the dinner queue once....on the day Ofsted was in. I sustained bruises and had to go on and teach (and was observed) straight afterwards.

It's not an uncommon experience, sadly.

Yes, I agree with you, it’s just splitting hairs really.

I think any pupil who’s violent should be excluded the first time that it happens, to reduce as far as possible risk to staff and other pupils.

If a teacher ends up seriously hurting a child who was in the process off attacking someone they should suffer no consequences.

I have just left my job as a TA, one of the reasons was the expectation that children are just allowed to physically attack staff and if they do it must be the staff member’s fault. When one of my colleagues was left covered in bite marks and bruises after one attack, she was told by the head that perhaps she should repeat her de escalation training 😡
I won’t be going back to work in a school again.

Well said

The two sides to this are equally valid though. It’s true that no pregnant teacher should be expected to endanger the life of her child to protect someone else’s, but it’s also true that the idea of an adult not intervening when a child is being physically assaulted is horrific.

Maybe if extreme violence in schools is really this common then teachers should be given some kind of child safe taser to use.

I can't imagine what its like for teachers, you can't really refuse to go in if work isn't a safe environment can you my? my dc was punched by another pupil and was told they needed to learn to read this child's behaviour and move away rather than anything being done about this which was basically assault. There wasn't anywhere for dc to 'move away to given the info got later was they'd been pinned down and hit!

I don't think many teachers will be shocked by this. A perfect storm of crap policies, cost cutting, staff shortages, some parents and other things makes behaviour really challenging to manage, and it often escalates to something like this. An NQT in a school I used to work in suffered life altering injury when they had their head banged against a wall by a student. Education is going the same way as the NHS, its failing and won't be long before it crumbles. People are quick to criticise teachers but it's a really tough job.

It's a shame teachers can't have small stun guns for these situations.

I feel most for the children who are there to learn and make friends but have their class disrupted and worry about being attacked by some feral child.

Aren't there still alternative schools or have they been shut down with the inclusion fad?

I hope you called the police for the assault and made a formal complaint against the school to the governors

I’d probably support that. As above I’d also hope that early exclusion would get rid of the children who’d do this before anything so serious happens.

I’d hope that it’s vanishingly rare that a first offence is anything so serious.

Bullies ruin school for everyone. Whatever “special needs” they may have the only people who should suffer for their problems is the bully themselves.

I wouldn't have intervened when pregnant either. If you think that makes me a crap teacher then that's up to you, I couldn't care less.

Wow.

You should be proud of your ds.

Doing what's right even when faced with punishment.

I'm pregnant and absolutely will not be intervening with any physical disputes until after I come back from maternity. I'll waddle off and find another adult to do so. Did my fair share of intervening before I became pregnant. I don't care if that makes me a shit teacher but my unborn child comes first now.

There are alternative provision schools. They are expensive to run and their funding is precarious. There is no joined up system that ensures children get the appropriate provision at the right time.

@Threetulips
Apparently it is the staffs fault for not de-escalating situations
Or it’s your fault for not anticipating the flying chair would catch you on the head as you didn’t duck quick enough.
I’m currently sporting a black eye for this very reason (Y6 Primary)

No way would I intervene when pregnant. I'd run for help.

Sister is a teacher at a rural town primary school, 500ish children, she says that evacuating a classroom is a daily occurrence because of pupil violence (fighting, throwing chairs etc) in order to protect the other kids and TA from that class. The class can then be stopped (lost) for up to an hour until the kid(s) causing the issues are calmed down enough to be removed allowing the other back in.

I don't know what the answer is but expecting teachers to deal with dangerous children is not it.

GCHeretic

Teachers are not paid enough, trained well enough or protected enough to put their personal safety at risk by getting involved in the sort of fights that are being described.

I have stopped many fights, the usual ones where kids hit one another and then really want someone to step in and break it up.

I have also broken up the types of fights described on here and the amount of shit that I was put through just isn't worth it.

Your son has done really well. It makes me so angry that bullies like this get their rights protected and ruin other pupil's school experience (and in this case assault a teacher as well).
When is society going to decide enough is enough and exclude vile pupils and penalise vile adults. It makes me sick that those who contribute the least get away with so much.